Yes another Ump gripe.... (look away if ya need to)

[Easton33]

It's not illegal until it gets called. Why wouldn't a college coach recruit a pitcher that throws in the 60's when umps rarely call IP? Watched a D1 game a month or so ago and the girl was jumping out 2' before a foot would touch.

 

[Ajaywill]

I will agree with you about calling IP during an exposure. It won't happen. But then again I have never seen an IP called during any game that I have watched in the last 5 years of TB. This includes local games, State Tournaments and Nationals. My sarcasm is that IP isn't being called in my area, and there are TONS of pitchers who throw illegal. Coach Candrea was very vocal about this fact a few years ago when his pitcher was called for I believe 3-4 IP's during one game. Candrea commented that it is wrong to call an IP during the WCWS if you aren't going to call them during the regular season. I would disagree slightly with Candrea as I feel they should be called all the time, not just during the most important tourneys.

If you bother to check the box scores from the year you are referring to, you will find that the Arizona pitcher was called for illegal pitches several times during that season. Since the box scores only list the IPs that resulted in a runner advancing, it is highly possible that there were more IPs called when no runners were on base.

All coaches want the illegal pitches called...on the OTHER teams pitcher.....

 

[ms244]

If you bother to check the box scores from the year you are referring to, you will find that the Arizona pitcher was called for illegal pitches several times during that season. Since the box scores only list the IPs that resulted in a runner advancing, it is highly possible that there were more IPs called when no runners were on base.

All coaches want the illegal pitches called...on the OTHER teams pitcher.....

I'm just going off of what Coach Candrea said during his press conference. I don't have time to check box scores to see if Candrea was telling the truth.

I want IP called on anyone who is illegal. The fact remains that I have never seen an IP called during any games that I have watched at any of my tournaments. I don't need to check box scores to prove that point. We have two pitchers on our current team that are illegal from time to time. Never called for IP, ever.

 

[mike s]

On the IP if its a rule then it should be called. If its not going to be called then the rule needs to be changed. It is so simple but the sanctioning bodies just wont do it. Ah well back to the real world where all rules make sense, are followed/enforced by and for every one, especially me.

 

[cuzmail]

If you bother to check the box scores from the year you are referring to, you will find that the Arizona pitcher was called for illegal pitches several times during that season. Since the box scores only list the IPs that resulted in a runner advancing, it is highly possible that there were more IPs called when no runners were on base.

Wait, so on one hand check the box score to see the IPs, but on the other hand the box score won't show IPs?

Candrea did say they didn't called it on Kenzie all year, but now they want to in the most important game.

All coaches want the illegal pitches called...on the OTHER teams pitcher.....

Not really, we want it called period and the umpires won't do it.

 

[MTR]

Wait, so on one hand check the box score to see the IPs, but on the other hand the box score won't show IPs?

That is correct. The NCAA box score only shows "balks" which we all know do not exist in softball. So, what is entered I the "Balk" cell is the IPs that caused the advancement of a runner, like the non-existent balk. I can only assume NCAA softball doesn't have the pull, money or desire to have their own software that would take more time to determine necessary changes than to change the programing to change and make softball-specific.

Candrea did say they didn't called it on Kenzie all year, but now they want to in the most important game.

Just as the tearful pitcher claimed, yet a quick check of NCAA records show that she had been called for a minimum of 8 "balks" that season PRIOR to the play-offs. IOW, Candrea and the pitcher publicly lied just assuming that people would buy what they were selling.....or selling out and that is the game and officiating. Obviously, that worked on some, especially the press who either did not check the records or chose to ignore them, but the lack of accurate journalism in this country is another story.

Not really, we want it called period and the umpires won't do it.

The umpires do what they are told. Why to you think there was such a fluctuation in the NCAA a few years ago? The umpires were told to start enforcing the rule and some of the coaches could not handle it. But if you paid attention to the interviews, the coaches never claimed the calls were incorrect, just that the umpires shouldn't be making them because it made the game look bad. Funny that to me, it was the coach who fails to get a pitcher in the circle that can pitch in accordance with the rule that makes the game look bad.

The entire staff was gone at the end of the year, many resigned when the supervisor was not brought back. That was a direct result of the umpires calling the IP that everyone CLAIMS to want done. Right up until it is and then the umpires are the bad guys for doing what was asked.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Nice post MTR.

Question. From what I understand the college coaches have strong influence on the IP's not being called. I know WE all love this game, but on the ladder of power sports, softball is near the bottom. How can these coaches push an umpiring org to look away from the written rules?

Let's look at MLB and it's billion dollars of influence. There have been some game changing calls on the biggest stage, the World Series, over the past 3 years. But they ARE written rules whether you like the call or not.

Am I missing something why softball is allowed to look the other way on certain rules?

 

[Easton33]

Typical MTR post.
"Umpires do what they are told".
Never the umps fault is it?
How about getting some integrity and enforce the rules as written instead of letting someone dictate what rules to enforce?

Why can't a coach get a legal pitcher? Again, it is not illegal until someone calls it. Why pass on or tweak a successful pitcher when they rarely get called.

 

[Comp]

Nice post MTR.

Question. From what I understand the college coaches have strong influence on the IP's not being called. I know WE all love this game, but on the ladder of power sports, softball is near the bottom. How can these coaches push an umpiring org to look away from the written rules?

Let's look at MLB and it's billion dollars of influence. There have been some game changing calls on the biggest stage, the World Series, over the past 3 years. But they ARE written rules whether you like the call or not.

Am I missing something why softball is allowed to look the other way on certain rules?

College coaches dont just have strong influence, they control the rules and the umpires. Just look at the rule books, the ASA book is about 116 pages including the rules supplements and the college rule book is 288 pages because the college coaches are constantly changing and modifying the rules. As has been indicated, they tried to crack down on the illegal pitches a while back and the entire umpire governing staff was either dismissed or resigned.

 

[marriard]

The entire staff was gone at the end of the year, many resigned when the supervisor was not brought back. That was a direct result of the umpires calling the IP that everyone CLAIMS to want done. Right up until it is and then the umpires are the bad guys for doing what was asked.

Actually what I want done is for the orgs to take their collective heads out of the sand, admit there is a problem with the rule as it is currently written and then figure out a way to make it something umpires could call and enforce easier.

Here are some things that I see as current issues that need to be addressed:

- The penalty is way out of line with base runners advancing. If it was just a 'dead ball, ball on the batter' it would help make the call more palatable. I am not sure what the justification is for the runners getting to advance mid at-bat (totally different to balk in baseball who get leads pre-pitch)
- Determining if a foot is above the ground with massive holes in front of the rubber or even if it is 'just' off the ground (which is by the rule illegal) is difficult and up for too much interpretation. Especially since the angle you need to get a good view is not great where ever the Base Umpires are situated. This is compounded because the best best view is from lower down, side on to the pitcher - which is right where the coaches generally sit.
- Pitching depth in softball is non-existent Even the best teams are carrying 2 real pitchers. Unlike baseball, you can't just get another kid to throw strikes and keep the game moving - fastpitch pitching is a learned motion. Especially in lower age groups where they are learning the motion, if a girl is throwing strikes you don't want to force coaches to remove her from a game because what is behind her may not be able to achieve this. Yes this is kind of a separate issue and shouldn't really be a consideration but depending on level we know it is. It is why we hear 'Lets not call them until age X - which ends up being too late because changing a learned motion take a long, long time and a lot of effort.
- Not sure there is any advantage anyway Seriously - unless they replant and crow hop which should remain illegal what exactly is a leaper getting anyway? Are they significantly closer to the batter (but then do they lose energy by going 'up' and off the ground instead of 'at' the batter?). Watching ISF where leaping is fine it does not appear that the speeds are higher? I don't know - does anyone?