Ump calls

[RADcatchers]

The umpire told us at the plate meeting that basically everything was a strike.

Halfway through the game I actually told my pitcher to stop throwing the ball near the plate because it didn't need to be near the plate to be a strike.

Being inquisitive......
If the umpire told you about what they were going to do with the strike zone before the game,
why didn't you make adjustments then?

That was a huge bonus the Umpire told you about the strike zone before the game.
Zone info applys to more than just what your pitcher is going to do. It involves what every one of your batters are going to have to tangle with when they get in the Box.
If the umpire tells you they were going to do such and such with their Strike Zone, that would be wise information for everybody on the team!
Most of the time coaches have to pay attention and communicate with the pitcher and catcher to understand what's actually happening with balls and strikes.

 

[CoachCeetar]

it's a verifiable fact that even MLB pitchers have a margin of error of hitting any given spot by like a foot, so of course 8, 10, 14 year old kids are going to be flummoxed by a weird strike zone and absolutely not able to adjust. Every deviation is going to, probably randomly, benefit one team/pitcher more than another, because no two pitchers are the same, though they're all trying for, and have thousands of pitches of practice with, the 'conventional' zone. So none of the "at least it's the same for both!" arguments carry much weight for me.

We've had mostly a good year so far with umps, though the zone's have been tighter than I'd like for 3rd/4th graders. One thing I have noticed that bothers me, and this is probably subconscious/human element stuff on the part of the ump, but if you're the home team down a few going into the last inning, the umpire's zone seems to expand quite a bit, in a "this game is 14-8, it's over let's just move it along" way.

Had an ump on Tuesday offer (he asked me first) advice to both a hitter and a pitcher during warm-ups. Was reasonable advice too, I was worried I was gonna have to be "ignore that nonsense" afterwards. He called a few strikes that hit the plate though which I didn't care for.

 

[RADcatchers]

As long as the zone is the same for both teams, both teams get the same effect of it.

This means more than just the pitcher has to deal with the individual umpire's zone decision making.

Can't guarantee this will be the last time I comment this....

Every player has to deal with the effect of the strike zone!

Just because the strike zone might be a completely great match for your team's pitcher. The opposing team's batters might love it as well!
Results in the game,
Good or Bad
Are the coach and players responsibilities!

 

[CoachCeetar]

Every player has to deal with the effect of umps not calling force outs, all outs must be tags.

good or bad, players and coach responsibility!


Or we could stick to the rules and try to limit the randomness. Games random enough without having to guess if things are going to be wildly different each game.

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

I am not an apologist for bad strike zones. I understand how frustrating it is (as a player, a coach, a parent, a fan, and even as an umpire partner) to have an umpire who obviously and consistently misses pitches.

I regard myself as a very good umpire, with a very good judgement of the strike zone. I do about 150 games a year, about 100 behind the plate, and there is not even one of those plates where I haven’t known that I’ve missed at least three pitches (and probably more that I was wrong about but didn’t think so).

As easy at it seems it should be from the rocker under the tent behind the first base fence, judging balls and strikes isn’t always so easy for your average youth umpire. Here’s just a few of the things we’re dealing with (note, none of this is an excuse for an objectively “bad” zone – it’s just a few challenges that umps face/overcome in consistent pitch calling):

I do games for 8u through 23u, rec, travel, showcase, school, in all different rule codes. Different distances, ball sizes, speeds, pitches, abilities, intensities, field conditions, field set ups, reasons for being on the field, every single game. There is no consistency. I imagine a world where an average umpire did nothing but 14u B level travel tournaments (in a single alphabet code) every game on the same perfectly marked turf field with the same partners at the same time of day, with teams of nonuplets (9 identical siblings) and I can imagine how much better their zone would be than it probably is today.

Batters – besides their natural height and body composition variability, tend to set up in all sorts of different places within our 21 square foot batters box. A ball at the top of the knee on a batter way up in the box might be low, while a pitch below the letters on a batter at the back of the box might be high. Catchers move around, up and down as well. Sometimes (ugh) they’re lefties. Sometimes they set up in a way that forces the umpire to adjust their ideal location, or in a way that obscures ideal view of the pitch.

This isn’t our first job. Our first job is some 40 hour per week gig doing something else, with all its attendant stresses and rewards. Not an excuse, just a reminder, that I’m not a “professional umpire”, I’m a utility manager. And there are for sure not enough of us, so we end up either doing too many games, or not having a choice in who is doing the game – as long as there are so many games being played, less than ideal umpires will be part of the mix. Which, I know (believe me I know), stinks.

All that to say, calling balls and strikes might be less straight forward than one might initially consider, even for the really good umpires who you like and admire (hahaha). And yes, I wish bad umpires didn’t exist too, but they do.

 

[YoungBuck]

Or do you mean too many games being played and not enough umpires?

I would like to see umpires (and teams) walk away from these formats that have them working a ridiculous number of games.

To think the quality will get better with this arrangement is absurd.

 

[RADcatchers]

Every player has to deal with the effect of umps

That is correct.

That is correct whether they made the call you want or not. Whether they think the tag was applied or not.

Good or bad umpiring we still have the game to be played!
Regardless of the strike zone we still need to pitch the ball and we still have the opportunity to swing the bat!

 

[earlg3]

I am not an apologist for bad strike zones. I understand how frustrating it is (as a player, a coach, a parent, a fan, and even as an umpire partner) to have an umpire who obviously and consistently misses pitches.

I regard myself as a very good umpire, with a very good judgement of the strike zone. I do about 150 games a year, about 100 behind the plate, and there is not even one of those plates where I haven’t known that I’ve missed at least three pitches (and probably more that I was wrong about but didn’t think so).

As easy at it seems it should be from the rocker under the tent behind the first base fence, judging balls and strikes isn’t always so easy for your average youth umpire. Here’s just a few of the things we’re dealing with (note, none of this is an excuse for an objectively “bad” zone – it’s just a few challenges that umps face/overcome in consistent pitch calling):

I do games for 8u through 23u, rec, travel, showcase, school, in all different rule codes. Different distances, ball sizes, speeds, pitches, abilities, intensities, field conditions, field set ups, reasons for being on the field, every single game. There is no consistency. I imagine a world where an average umpire did nothing but 14u B level travel tournaments (in a single alphabet code) every game on the same perfectly marked turf field with the same partners at the same time of day, with teams of nonuplets (9 identical siblings) and I can imagine how much better their zone would be than it probably is today.

Batters – besides their natural height and body composition variability, tend to set up in all sorts of different places within our 21 square foot batters box. A ball at the top of the knee on a batter way up in the box might be low, while a pitch below the letters on a batter at the back of the box might be high. Catchers move around, up and down as well. Sometimes (ugh) they’re lefties. Sometimes they set up in a way that forces the umpire to adjust their ideal location, or in a way that obscures ideal view of the pitch.

This isn’t our first job. Our first job is some 40 hour per week gig doing something else, with all its attendant stresses and rewards. Not an excuse, just a reminder, that I’m not a “professional umpire”, I’m a utility manager. And there are for sure not enough of us, so we end up either doing too many games, or not having a choice in who is doing the game – as long as there are so many games being played, less than ideal umpires will be part of the mix. Which, I know (believe me I know), stinks.

All that to say, calling balls and strikes might be less straight forward than one might initially consider, even for the really good umpires who you like and admire (hahaha). And yes, I wish bad umpires didn’t exist too, but they do.

I appreciate all umpires that are doing their best, even if they're messing up. To your point, it's not easy and there are a lot of variables.

My frustration isn't with them missing calls. My frustration is when they just make up their own strike zone, and I _know_ some umpires do that. They totally disregard the ruleset and switch it what _they_ feel like the zone should be.

For example, this is the strike zone in NFHS. There is no other strike zone. This is it. Umpires do not get discretion to make up their own. (Not singling you out or saying you don't follow this, fwiw, just explaining the umpires that I think are totally wrong.)

 

[RADcatchers]

Obviously this wouldn't be a topic if people didn't realize how much inconsistency there is.

Since there is no foolproof method of consistency...
( myself I've already acknowledged understanding and recognizing the inconsistency since I was a young child)
from that...

My comments revolve around controlling what we as players and coaches can do to win the game. And that means recognizing what inconsistency we may be dealing with in the particular game we are playing. And strategize with that knowledge!

 

[BucketDud]

For example, this is the strike zone in NFHS. There is no other strike zone. This is it. Umpires do not get discretion to make up their own. (Not singling you out or saying you don't follow this, fwiw, just explaining the umpires that I think are totally wrong.)

View attachment 29835

Interesting to see the zone in writing. I can tell you a couple high level tourneys we played this year using NFHS rules wasn't even close to that. Basically everything at the belt and above was high and anything at the knees or below was a ball.

It was the same for both teams, but saw some of the best pitchers in our region struggling with walks. Kids that normally have 1-2 per game were having 6-8. Lot of offense by all teams that weekend.