Ump calls

[Agcy]

I appreciate all umpires that are doing their best, even if they're messing up. To your point, it's not easy and there are a lot of variables.

My frustration isn't with them missing calls. My frustration is when they just make up their own strike zone, and I _know_ some umpires do that. They totally disregard the ruleset and switch it what _they_ feel like the zone should be.

For example, this is the strike zone in NFHS. There is no other strike zone. This is it. Umpires do not get discretion to make up their own. (Not singling you out or saying you don't follow this, fwiw, just explaining the umpires that I think are totally wrong.)

View attachment 29835

Now, what if I told you the #1 complaint from HS coaches to the Umpire's in Charge last winter was "when will umpires stop calling the high strikes?" IE - the vast majority of HS coaches don't want the "forward armpit" high pitches called strikes...

 

[Agcy]

Really just venting...

Played in a local 12u tournament last Saturday. My DD pitches and has been pitching for 3 years now. She likes to throw a lot of screwballs, curveballs, and corner pitches. You could tell the ump for our first game was new and it quickly became apparent that anything that wasn't directly down the center of the plate was going to be called a ball. Okay, so DD adjusted and targeted more center plate and of course the balls kept getting smacked back at her. Oh well, we shrugged it off as the ump being new and moved on. Our third game of the day, not being mean but it is fair to say that the ump for this game was no spring chicken. He no longer was able to bend his knees and literally had to stand completely upright while behind the catcher. This led to another issue where anything my DD threw that was slightly above the knee or even mid-thigh was being called a ball. He would only call strikes on pitches at waist level or higher. Overall, a very weird day for umps. Anyone else experience anything similar?

I don't mean this as a snarky way, but you should try umpiring some time. I watched my daughters play for many years and realized they needed more umpires so when I could I did weekends and now that they're done I do as many games as I can. I'll tell you this - it is a lot harder to be consistent than you might think. AND, some days are harder than others.

I've had games where I feel great about my calls (even with 3 or so that I didn't feel good about) and the next night EVERY pitch feels wrong (even though the vast majority were consist and and good calls) Some nights, what feels right the catchers complain about, other nights, I get dirty looks from the pitcher every other pitch. Some nights, the fans comments feel like part of the game and other nights every cheer feels like a personal attack (even if it the same both nights). One night I didn't notice the music was still playing during the first pitch of the inning - had grandma comment "you have one job" - kind of shut her up when I told her I had about 18 things to keep track of behind the plate.

Some nights the catchers work with me (helping their pitcher & coach know what 'we' see); other nights they're just trying to fake me out and make every pitch look like a strike while telling the pitcher it's not her fault.

But, to the core of your vent, there should be some sort of feedback to the umpires. I know that doesn't entail "hey that wasn't a good call" during the game, but you might be able to find the site director afterwards and politely suggest that your umpire might need an evaluation or feedback from the local expert. At the same time, you better pass along satisfaction when the umpire deserves it as well.

I will say that I've had well experienced umpires tell me they have 2 inning to get their zone consistent to the pitcher - maybe it should be sooner, but it kind of makes sense.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I appreciate all umpires that are doing their best, even if they're messing up. To your point, it's not easy and there are a lot of variables.

My frustration isn't with them missing calls. My frustration is when they just make up their own strike zone, and I _know_ some umpires do that. They totally disregard the ruleset and switch it what _they_ feel like the zone should be.

For example, this is the strike zone in NFHS. There is no other strike zone. This is it. Umpires do not get discretion to make up their own. (Not singling you out or saying you don't follow this, fwiw, just explaining the umpires that I think are totally wrong.)

View attachment 29835

Now I will pick apart this masterful piece of art you posted . . . because it sure isn't science to be reproduced with the same results every time.

They were clever enough to give us "the FRONT" armpit . . . which means a ball at the shoulders should be a strike. Which knee? The front one? The back one? The highest one? The lowest one?

The batter assumes a natural batting stance? What does that mean? What if he/she has an unnatural stance? Is the natural stance when they step in and take a few practice swings, or when they hunker down into a pitch-ready position?

We shall determine the zone based on the batter's usual stance . . . Usual or natural? What if the batter does something unusual? How do I even know what usual is?

Even defining the zone is not as simple as you think.

Interesting to see the zone in writing. I can tell you a couple high level tourneys we played this year using NFHS rules wasn't even close to that. Basically everything at the belt and above was high and anything at the knees or below was a ball.

It was the same for both teams, but saw some of the best pitchers in our region struggling with walks. Kids that normally have 1-2 per game were having 6-8. Lot of offense by all teams that weekend.

Those umpires are doing the world a disservice and should be $#!+canned, reprimanded, or trained. Even NCAA and MLB don't use the belt. Those are people who spend too much time watching that false idol of a strike zone box on TV.

That said, despite that constant call on here, I have never met an umpire who believes that. Not saying you haven't, but the odds are that I should have run into one by now. I mean, through my umpiring I've encountered major leaguers, Olympic champions, national champions, and a few entertainment celebrities . . . but I still haven't seen an umpire who won't call a strike above the belt.

Now, what if I told you the #1 complaint from HS coaches to the Umpire's in Charge last winter was "when will umpires stop calling the high strikes?" IE - the vast majority of HS coaches don't want the "forward armpit" high pitches called strikes...

See, there is a flaw in your logic. Coaches only complain when you call high strikes on their batters, not for their pitchers. We should just change the definition of "strike" to "pitches thrown by my pitcher" and "ball" to "pitches thrown to my batters." Problem solved!

I will say that I've had well experienced umpires tell me they have 2 inning to get their zone consistent to the pitcher - maybe it should be sooner, but it kind of makes sense.

Everything you said was spot on. I just want to call this out because it largely is true. While people with their gin cup Stanley and position under the popup want to believe that they know the scientific irrefutability of what a strike is, they have no clue. Even umpires have to dial it in and then stay on it for two+ hours.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I would like to see umpires (and teams) walk away from these formats that have them working a ridiculous number of games.

To think the quality will get better with this arrangement is absurd.

This, all day long.

I know there are young and old umpires who will take all 6 or 7 games straight through the day . . . and they are trash by the end of it, even if they don't know it/won't admit it. Some may have been trash at the beginning.

I'm doing a lot less softball these days, which means 120+ minute games instead of 75+ minute games. That said, by mid-game in game 3 I know my game is starting to decline. I will usually catch a second wind (if I manage my fluid and food intake) by the end of the game and can eek out a 4th game if I have to. I'm starting to not even like doing that. If I am travelling for a tournament though, I want to make that investment worth it for them and me, so I will usually end up doing a few more than I want over the weekend.

It isn't just the physical toll, but the mental toll as well. Maintaining focus for that long has an impact on you. Now, if you are somebody who is measuring your energy output (physical and mental) and not giving it 100% at any point in the day, sure, you can go longer. But what are you sacrificing in quality just to get quantity?

Everybody is different, but I have reached the point that it isn't worth the aggravation (physical and mental) for $75. I'm not killing myself because there is a plastic ring on the line for you.

 

[CoachJD]

Being inquisitive......
If the umpire told you about what they were going to do with the strike zone before the game,
why didn't you make adjustments then?

That was a huge bonus the Umpire told you about the strike zone before the game.
Zone info applys to more than just what your pitcher is going to do. It involves what every one of your batters are going to have to tangle with when they get in the Box.
If the umpire tells you they were going to do such and such with their Strike Zone, that would be wise information for everybody on the team!
Most of the time coaches have to pay attention and communicate with the pitcher and catcher to understand what's actually happening with balls and strikes.

I forget his exact wording, but the implication was "big zone," not "any ball that doesn't hit the backstop." When I say he was calling pitches a couple feet outside, I'm not exaggerating. Several pitches that crossed the batter 6-12 inches over her head were strikes, too. And it's not a case of a very slow pitcher and batters up in the box where it can pass the batter over her head and still be in the strike zone. The pitcher threw a typical speed for what we see. She just had no control, and it benefited her.

There's not really any adjusting to that until you see it. It's also hard to get a pitcher who is used to trying to hit corners and throw good pitches to just intentionally throw bad ones.

For the hitters? I don't really want them over extending and swinging at pitches they're never going to swing at in 99% of the other games. We're not talking about a couple pitches in the river. There's adjustments and there's needing a 55" bat to hit a ball. I'll take the "L" in one game over ruining them for the next several.

I don't think people can fathom just how bad the umpiring around here actually is. My list of umpires that I'll hire for home varsity games is only 4 or 5 people. It's rare we have an away game at a public school where I don't have to explain several rules to the umpires (and the other coach).

 

[CoachJD]

I appreciate all umpires that are doing their best, even if they're messing up. To your point, it's not easy and there are a lot of variables.

My frustration isn't with them missing calls. My frustration is when they just make up their own strike zone, and I _know_ some umpires do that. They totally disregard the ruleset and switch it what _they_ feel like the zone should be.

For example, this is the strike zone in NFHS. There is no other strike zone. This is it. Umpires do not get discretion to make up their own. (Not singling you out or saying you don't follow this, fwiw, just explaining the umpires that I think are totally wrong.)

View attachment 29835

Also, somewhere in there it specifically says a ball that hits the plate and is not swung at cannot be a strike. Doesn't matter if it's a 25 mph slow pitch with an extreme arc that somehow clips the zone.

 

[chinamigarden]

Really just venting...

Played in a local 12u tournament last Saturday. My DD pitches and has been pitching for 3 years now. She likes to throw a lot of screwballs, curveballs, and corner pitches. You could tell the ump for our first game was new and it quickly became apparent that anything that wasn't directly down the center of the plate was going to be called a ball. Okay, so DD adjusted and targeted more center plate and of course the balls kept getting smacked back at her. Oh well, we shrugged it off as the ump being new and moved on. Our third game of the day, not being mean but it is fair to say that the ump for this game was no spring chicken. He no longer was able to bend his knees and literally had to stand completely upright while behind the catcher. This led to another issue where anything my DD threw that was slightly above the knee or even mid-thigh was being called a ball. He would only call strikes on pitches at waist level or higher. Overall, a very weird day for umps. Anyone else experience anything similar?

Part of the game. Everyone has experienced this. We have had umps whose strike zone was a triangle. Adapt and overcome.

 

[CoachCeetar]

Also, somewhere in there it specifically says a ball that hits the plate and is not swung at cannot be a strike. Doesn't matter if it's a 25 mph slow pitch with an extreme arc that somehow clips the zone.

7.2 article 2.



One of the reasons umps probably shouldn't call pitches from behind the pitcher.

 

[Agcy]

I forget his exact wording, but the implication was "big zone," not "any ball that doesn't hit the backstop." When I say he was calling pitches a couple feet outside, I'm not exaggerating. Several pitches that crossed the batter 6-12 inches over her head were strikes, too. And it's not a case of a very slow pitcher and batters up in the box where it can pass the batter over her head and still be in the strike zone. The pitcher threw a typical speed for what we see. She just had no control, and it benefited her.

There's not really any adjusting to that until you see it. It's also hard to get a pitcher who is used to trying to hit corners and throw good pitches to just intentionally throw bad ones.

For the hitters? I don't really want them over extending and swinging at pitches they're never going to swing at in 99% of the other games. We're not talking about a couple pitches in the river. There's adjustments and there's needing a 55" bat to hit a ball. I'll take the "L" in one game over ruining them for the next several.

I don't think people can fathom just how bad the umpiring around here actually is. My list of umpires that I'll hire for home varsity games is only 4 or 5 people. It's rare we have an away game at a public school where I don't have to explain several rules to the umpires (and the other coach).

Maybe you could find out who the Umpire in Charge is and work with them. USSSA in Iowa has hired a proactive person. Now, I don't know if they have address strike zones specifically, but they do offer free training several times a year and wander around tournaments providing feedback. Find the UIC and work with them on your experience.

 

[The Man In Blue]

7.2 article 2.

View attachment 29850

One of the reasons umps probably shouldn't call pitches from behind the pitcher.

I knew that, but I guess I never really paid attention to the way that is written. That is not an EFFECT as nothing in the rule says that. That should be part of the rule.