Yes another Ump gripe.... (look away if ya need to)

[RubberBiscuit]

Illogical argument and example. I never said an umpire's one call is meaningless, what I said is there are dozens of opportunities for a team to score runs and limit runs scored against them during the game. You need to look at the totality of the game and not point the finger at one event as determining the outcome. Thats not what the great coaches do. Softball is a complex game where 100's of pitches are thrown and a multitude of plays happen every inning. But apparently none of that matters, it's the umpires fault for that one incorrect call that cost the team the game. Give me a break. Thats a losers mentality. You got beat because the other team was better than yours that particular day.

Well we'll have to agree to totally disagree. Good luck with your mantra for mediocrity.

 

[bhblue]

Going - If you're asking for the root cause of umpires not calling IPs, my observation is that something, maybe fear, makes many umpires look for reasons NOT to call them. I see just as many ignored IPs at the college level as in youth ball and have never been instructed not to call them in college. I think there are plenty umpires out there who may say they were told not to call them but the reality is the decision is solely theirs.

 

[MTR]

Not true. ASA Code has been modified the last couple of years to provide more flexibility for championship play at the local level, but it does not allow them to make whatever changes they want.

Actually, I used to think the same thing, but apparently the local association (state/metro) commissioner can do whatever they please at their level. It is nothing new, happens all the time. As a NC UIC, I spent half the pre-game meeting/clinic explaining that at this level there was only one Flex/DP, no such thing as an EP or DH, let alone multiple of each; That the line-up could only have 9 batters, no more; That a player with any jewelry was not ejected; That a team couldn't voluntarily go shorthanded with players on the bench or that an automatic out or illegal bat was not an appeal play; And the best of all, having an approved face mask on the batting helmet was optional! Each and every coach with these questions insisted that those rules were in place at their respective ASA States or NQ.

I was dumbfounded, but following up I found this to be a fact of life beyond our control. In the SP game, it has not been uncommon for commissioners to allow non-approved bats in championship play only to have teams show up at a NC and be told that they would not be allowed to use those bats. When questioned, at least on commissioner just said, "they were told that would happen" and walked away as if this was a non-issue. And as far as OKC is concerned, it is a non-issue. To me, that is disappointing.

AFAIC, too many small kingdoms and kings.

 

[MTR]

Bret, you are 100% correct ^^^^^. The only difference is those mods are usually noted in writing BEFORE the tourney. Pitching mods ( IP's )............I've never seen in writing. So why the secrecy?

There isn't an umpire that will not agree with you. It doesn't always happen like that and sometimes that is not realized until a coach questions why something isn't called.

There are some that distribute moderations, but more often it is word of mouth. I would think most umpires are like myself that when they arrive at t tournament, one of the first things done is to check with the UIC or umpires who have already worked if there were any special rules or instructions.

 

[MTR]

MTR - So waht are some of these "surprise" rules that would hit us common-folk if they were implemented as written?

1. Some rule I was not aware of that pitchers could not throw inning warm-ups
2. ??

I don't know what "inning warm-ups" are, but when are warm-ups allowed? At the beginning of each inning. Do you know when the inning begins? The moment the out of the previous half-inning is made. Allowed one minute to take no more than five pitches. If an umpire holds on to that minute, how many warm-up pitches do you think your pitcher would get?

Most umpires do not worry about the minute until the pitcher begins, if at all. It is a "game control" rule. But think about it? There are some pitchers that couldn't get five pitches in one minute if their life depended on it.

Then there is the "one second" the pitcher is required to bring the hands together. Since forever, ASA umpires have been instructed that together is one second, even if a passing touch.

Then there is the forfeit if a team employs tactics designed to delay or hasten the game. I should note, the rule says nothing of a warning, just that point that the game should be a forfeit.

And you have the blood rule which states that a player that is bleeding or has any blood on their uniform be prohibited from playing until the appropriate treatment administered or that piece of the uniform needs to be removed. I don't think I've seen the blood rule applied for a couple years now.

I tell ya one thing I HATE seeing is the one organization that says the on-deck batter has to stay on their dugout side. I would double-tap the genious that invented that rule.....

Actually, an ODB really isn't any safer in any on place and there are many more issues with placing the ODB on the opponents side of the field and it really hasn't anything to do with switch hitters.

How long do you think it will take before coaches complain about THOSE people saying things to THEIR ODB and wants the umpire to stop it? Or you have the ODB running at the mouth to the other team? Or the coaches worried about their privacy and conversations with a player from the other team standing there.

 

[Umpire]

ON-DECK BATTER RULE
If you want to know why a rule is written the way it is, you have to ask yourself what is the rule looking to prevent or protect. The reason the on-deck batter is restricted to her own on-deck circle is to prevent the on-deck batter from heckling the opposition and to prevent the opposition from heckling the on-deck batter. In the very least, it prevents the allegation that there was an inappropriate exchange.

Though this may seem insane to a 10u girls coach, keep in mind that the rules were originally written for adult play. Even rule books that are written solely for amateur or college play are going to adopt these rules unless they can justify eliminating them.

 

[MTR]

Though this may seem insane to a 10u girls coach, keep in mind that the rules were originally written for adult play. Even rule books that are written solely for amateur or college play are going to adopt these rules unless they can justify eliminating them.

I don't know if it is that insane. It isn't uncommon for coaches at the lower level to want certain cheering stopped or people removed because they are upsetting their player, maybe even making them cry. Even worse if you come across one of these coaches who thinks every game must be won and intimidation is a viable tool. And teams often reflect their coach and in such a case, I can very much see placing an opponent in the general vicinity of the team becoming an issue.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

ON-DECK BATTER RULE
If you want to know why a rule is written the way it is, you have to ask yourself what is the rule looking to prevent or protect. The reason the on-deck batter is restricted to her own on-deck circle is to prevent the on-deck batter from heckling the opposition and to prevent the opposition from heckling the on-deck batter. In the very least, it prevents the allegation that there was an inappropriate exchange.

Though this may seem insane to a 10u girls coach, keep in mind that the rules were originally written for adult play. Even rule books that are written solely for amateur or college play are going to adopt these rules unless they can justify eliminating them.

My head can't leave the safety betterment of getting odb's out of the way of late line drives. In the 16u/18u domain where good batters foul off good pitches these odb's are at high risk.

In D1 college on TV ya see these hot shots alot, but there appears to be more space with dugouts apparently set back further.

Bottom line is over the last three years this has been the highest injury risk thing I have seen that could be easily avoided.

 

[Comp]

My head can't leave the safety betterment of getting odb's out of the way of late line drives. In the 16u/18u domain where good batters foul off good pitches these odb's are at high risk.

In D1 college on TV ya see these hot shots alot, but there appears to be more space with dugouts apparently set back further.

Bottom line is over the last three years this has been the highest injury risk thing I have seen that could be easily avoided.

I have seen plenty of ODB hit even standing in the ODC behind the batter. You want safety, just do what LL did and eliminate the ODB.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

In the ASA book, it is Rule 12. Even for championship play, the local commissioner may use or omit whatever rules they choose.

Not true. ASA Code has been modified the last couple of years to provide more flexibility for championship play at the local level, but it does not allow them to make whatever changes they want.

Actually, I used to think the same thing, but apparently the local association (state/metro) commissioner can do whatever they please at their level. It is nothing new, happens all the time. As a NC UIC, I spent half the pre-game meeting/clinic explaining that at this level there was only one Flex/DP, no such thing as an EP or DH, let alone multiple of each; That the line-up could only have 9 batters, no more; That a player with any jewelry was not ejected; That a team couldn't voluntarily go shorthanded with players on the bench or that an automatic out or illegal bat was not an appeal play; And the best of all, having an approved face mask on the batting helmet was optional! Each and every coach with these questions insisted that those rules were in place at their respective ASA States or NQ.

I was dumbfounded, but following up I found this to be a fact of life beyond our control. In the SP game, it has not been uncommon for commissioners to allow non-approved bats in championship play only to have teams show up at a NC and be told that they would not be allowed to use those bats. When questioned, at least on commissioner just said, "they were told that would happen" and walked away as if this was a non-issue. And as far as OKC is concerned, it is a non-issue. To me, that is disappointing.

AFAIC, too many small kingdoms and kings.

You presented Rule 12 as allowing them to change anything they want in championship play - and it doesn't. Period.

The fact that some commissioners don't enforce the rules is a separate issue and isn't grounds for anyone to do it. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that there are differences in how associations operate because they vary greatly by size, competition from other sanctions and knowledge/commitment of the people running them.