The underlying issue could be

[RADcatchers]

It's also important to know why someone may not want to continue playing.

Do they have other interests?
Do they feel too much pressure?
Is their performance not living up to their expectations or their perceived expectations of others?
Is their current experience (bad team, bad coaching, etc.) affecting their enjoyment?
Have they just been playing too much softball and need a break?

We should not make a kid feel like they're forced to play, but also, the underlying reasons might not be that big of a deal but it seems like a huge deal to them because they're kids and everything is magnified.

Sometimes they need a break. Sometimes they need to just find something new to do. And sometimes they just need a conversation to ease their minds about whatever is bothering them.

Good read.

Let me ask as you are coach JD.
If a player is exhibiting not pleasant body language. Have you addressed this with parents? How did you bring it up? And how long would you allow this to remain on a roster? If I remember correctly you coach school ball (which might be a short season, not sure if this would affect a short season for you ?) Vs. if you are on a year long team would you have a standard to players disposition?

 

[CoachCeetar]

And sometimes parents/coaches/observers are reading intent into body language that doesn't actually exist.

what is "not pleasant body language" and "not positive attributes" ? Maybe a kid is just different. Maybe the kid who slumps their shoulders and retreats to the corner of the bench after a play is actually positively processing their emotions and the situation and is re-focused for their next play and maybe the one that appears to shake it off immediately and keeps a smile on their face is actually seething inside and it affects their next play.

If a kid is constantly dejected and moody, and lackluster in effort (NOT performance) that's one thing you can address, but if you tell that kid "Hey, go in for X at SS" and they respond "Sure coach" and hustles out there, you probably have nothing to worry about.

Maybe they really want to play softball but there are any number of other things weighing on them, and inbetween action it's hard to block out. An emotional teen or preteen? Imagine that.

Make sure players are actively choosing to be there, sure, but if they're showing up to practice, engaging with you softball-wise, taking instruction, etc, why would you introduce doubt, for yourself or for them, just because they slumped their shoulders or got a little grumpy? Because they're allowing intrusive thoughts about a very critical math test tomorrow color their attitude?

 

[CoachJD]

Good read.

Let me ask as you are coach JD.
If a player is exhibiting not pleasant body language. Have you addressed this with parents? How did you bring it up? And how long would you allow this to remain on a roster? If I remember correctly you coach school ball (which might be a short season, not sure if this would affect a short season for you ?) Vs. if you are on a year long team would you have a standard to players disposition?

Depends on the age.

For younger players, I'll go to the parents first. It actually happened this year with a girl who has been around a while. She had a few kind of bad moments. Somewhat disrespectful, but nothing too bad. One time she just refused to move during a play. I just asked her mom what was going on with her because it was so unlike how she's always been. I'm still not sure what the issue was, but she went back to her old self.

For my HS girls, I'll talk to them about it. I'm not going to the parents unless I think there's a serious issue. I might talk to the parents I know well a little more often about their kids, but I take "addressed this with parents" to be a more formal situation.

What I mean is there's "Hey, Suzie was off today," which I might send as a casual text to the parents I know well, and "Ms. Smith, Suzie has has several incidents..." which probably would be sent in an email, and it might include and invitation to meet to discuss the problem. I really haven't had to do that though, outside of the rare chronic attendance issue.

I tend to not make too big of a deal over teenage girls occasionally having bad body language. They're not all going to be in perfect moods every day. It's more about how to handle the individual. Some need to be left alone. Some need to be told to get it together. Some need you to joke with them. Some need a friend/teammate to do one of those things, so I'll have that person do it. Sometimes they might just need to sit that day. I look at it like this: Is my personal performance always at 100%? Is anybody's? Everybody gets to have a bad day as long as they're not making everyone else have a bad day, too.

I do coach school ball, but we also have a summer team. The girls who do both are with us for about 6 months straight, but I'm also the AD so I'm at the school all the time. Even when I'm not actively coaching them, I'm still part of their lives and occasionally need to help with whatever is bothering them.

Here's a real life example: We have a girl who has actual diagnosed issues. She's left our school and come back because of these issues. She's doing hard work to better herself, but she's not perfect and when things go poorly for her she doesn't always react well. I've learned how to talk to her to calm her down. I've learned to not take her "I don't want to do this anymore" lines seriously when she's really just venting and putting up defenses to handle her own failure.

Had a moment this summer where I point blank asked her "Can you go out there and focus on playing defense or do you need to sit for an inning?" She needed to sit, so she did, and a few minutes later she was fine. That was her recognizing her emotional/mental state, expressing to me that she needed the break to get herself right, and then things were good. Some coaches may see someone like her as a headache. I see a kid I can help, and have helped, and as long as I see progress from her, I can manage her little mini-tantrums and bad body language.

 

[Rolling Hard]

But if a 17 year old playing in a showcase with 15 college coaches watching, take a called strike 2 on a pitch she thought was inside, puts palms up, shrugs her shoulders and shakes her head and then continue to strike out swinging on a riseballs out of the zone and stomps off the field, she probably just got sharpied (crossed off) a bunch of coaches list. College coaches need players that can handle diversity. They don't have time for childish behavior. Body language and attitude are important.

 

[cvsoftball]

But coaches don't make the decisions for families.
Aka- coach is not a family counselor.

They may control their roster and coaching team but they don't control the family and players decisions.
( parents are the connecting guidance for their kids, particular to emotional disposition and maturing)

I must respectfully disagree. Coaches/teachers have all sorts of influence on parents and players. At least the good ones do. Players may not open up to the parents but they will to a 3rd party they know and trust. Do we not work with players' physical, mental, and emotional well being?

 

[RADcatchers]

I must respectfully disagree. Coaches/teachers have all sorts of influence on parents and players. At least the good ones do. Players may not open up to the parents but they will to a 3rd party they know and trust. Do we not work with players' physical, mental, and emotional well being?

I agree that coaches can offer influential feedback. *never said that couldnt happen. Sometimes that can influence positive or negative.
However with that,
Parents have primary role of guidance because it is their child/money/time.
Family has to make the decision about situation.


( obviously a coach could cut a player but that does not mean the family wouldn't go just pick up on another team. Family still has the decision to make)

 

[CoachJD]

But if a 17 year old playing in a showcase with 15 college coaches watching, take a called strike 2 on a pitch she thought was inside, puts palms up, shrugs her shoulders and shakes her head and then continue to strike out swinging on a riseballs out of the zone and stomps off the field, she probably just got sharpied (crossed off) a bunch of coaches list. College coaches need players that can handle diversity. They don't have time for childish behavior. Body language and attitude are important.

I don't disagree with this. If I were a college coach, especially one at a school that spends millions on its softball program, you're not going to bother with that kid. That's not your job.

But my job, I think, ultimately has very little to do with softball.

The player I mentioned in my post is an OK softball player who's not going to play softball after her senior year. The softball part just doesn't really matter that much. The rest of it does.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Lots of people do things because of inertia. "I play softball because I play softball" is certainly one of them.

Particularly for kids. As they approach teen years, they will have spent most of their life -- particularly most of their formative and memorable life -- being defined as a player of that sport. They are incapable of comparing to a frame of reference where they are not that, particularly if you have had them spending several months of each year doing it.

They don't even know a world where they are somebody else.

 

[The Man In Blue]

But coaches don't make the decisions for families.
Aka- coach is not a family counselor.

They may control their roster and coaching team but they don't control the family and players decisions.
( parents are the connecting guidance for their kids, particular to emotional disposition and maturing)

I'm with @cvsoftball . You are correct about that role, Rad, but a good coach (and a good teacher) will help that player realistically appraise their role and identity as a player and, more importantly, as a person. They can help you reach that cold, harsh reality (this may not be for you), but do it in a productive manner. They don't just run kids off, they help them find where they belong.

I have just spent the first three days of school beating my students over the head.

In my Advanced and Honors classes, I began with "Please check your schedule. If it does NOT say 'Mr. TMIB, room number 337, Advanced/Honors English', then you are in the wrong place. Now, please check your schedule. If it DOES say 'Mr. TMIB, room number 337, Advanced/Honors English', you need to ask yourself if you are in the right place."

I am taking over yearbook this year. They were greeted with "If you signed up for a class to get an elective credit, you are in the wrong place. If you signed up for a job you will learn from, you are in the right place."

I tell them that I had an almost 80% fail rate in my freshmen classes last year, so it does not bother me to give them a failing grade if they are failing themselves.

I do not claim to be a good teacher. My goal was to scare them off, but to do so in an honest and open manner that makes them reflect on how they will succeed.

We had our first staff meeting today. I was told kids are submitting schedule changes for my classes left, right, and sideways . . . but they are submitting the requests to transfer INTO my classes.

People appreciate reality. Even if it is in cold, hard doses at times.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Just want to say thank you @RADcatchers for this thread and the coaches for the comments in it.

I'm handing out LOTS of LOVE, not likes.

My school may not have a softball team this year. Our coach retired from coaching and we may have to co-op with another school in the district (not the same as having our team). I was talking to one of the players today and asked her what was going to happen.

She said, "I don't know. I suppose I am going to play either way, though. I don't need softball in my life, but I need a team in my life."