OT: baseball rules violation results in forfeit

[Jeff Gamesman]

I guarantee the opposing coach absolutely knew he had an ineligible pitcher coming in and was trying to get away with it. I wouldn't be surprised to find out your coaches had seen them try this before at another tournament and possibly get away with it. If this is the case then the victory becomes way less hollow than just catching them in a 'we caught you' moment.

We won a national championship bracket game because we knew two of the opposing players were 2 years too old (they had played against the older sisters of 3 of our players). It actually ended up 5 of their players were 'too old'. Their coach tried to claim he had no idea until it was revealed one of the players was his daughter.

When these things happen, everybody loses. I completely agree 29dad. It would have been a much better lesson/example for the boys regardless if that coach was a cad like this one marriard describes. Its so sad that these things ever happen, let alone with the frequency that they do these days. What ever happened to the joy of the pursuit of victory? When having your opponent at their best was more important or at least as important than it was to them?The idea of cheating being not only distasteful but a cheat in its self of glorious victory...or meaningful proving of ones self against a quality foe. The only thing worse in competition then losing to a cheat is being the cheat that won.

 

[canyonjoe]

Baseball just isn't a good game these tournaments. 4-5-6 games in 2 days with pitch count or inning limits. I'm all for the limits, but they need to figure out better formats. Anyone who plays little league knows how hard it is to manage pitchers when you have to play 3 games in a week, never mind 6 in 2 days. If you are going to play, you need a lot of pitchers.

Just my opinion, but a bigger issue over high pitch counts is how often they are used. I don't think a pitcher should pitch twice in the same day and rarely on consecutive days.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

I understand the rule but would love to read the research (facts) behind it.

Check out the references for Stop Sports Iinjuries - Baseball Injury Prevention. Their recommendations for softball initially just copied LL's limits until they developed some FP-specific ones - Softball Injury Prevention.

The limits are very conservative due to being "safe" maximums. Exceeding them doesn't mean an overuse injury will occur, however there is an increased risk associated with how much they are exceeded. I believe the structure of the limits are helpful in understanding the different factors involved.

Just looking at the rash of arm injuries in MLB it doesn't seem to be working (anecdotal, just my observation).

The youth pitching limits are relatively new (last 10 years), so they came after the current MLB players were boys. Even so, the glaring hole in the limits is they are only tracked within a team/league/event and kids are pitching for multiple teams/sanctions. For example, some kids play for LL and TB teams in the same week and neither one is limiting their total for both.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

A win is a win. Did the boys care that it was on a technicality? Also, the boys will always remember this and maybe become good coaches because of it.

 

[starsnuffer]

If the kids cared they'd settle it in the sandlot after their parent's tournament. There, I said it.

-W

 

[KCPRK]

I GUARANTEE you that those boys and the pitcher included knew what the coach did was illegal.

I guarantee they knew it was wrong and were questioning it as well.

And I guarantee its not the first time that coach cheated.

Cheaters need to be called out on it. teach the kids the proper lessons-not cheat to win. The bad guy here is the person making the decision to cheat knowing his kids and parents likely knew what he was doing was wrong.

And in these tournies they publish pitch counts during the game and advertise them to curb cheating. bet this gets called on more than we think and it is what the governing bodies want-cheaters to get caught and be punished. Too bad a parent didn't stop the coach before it punished the kids too. Turning your head to a wrong doesn't make you right-it makes you part of the wrong as well.

 

[Indiana]

If the kids cared they'd settle it in the sandlot after their parent's tournament. There, I said it.

-W

LOVE this! Bring back sandlot ball, I say.

If 29's son's team lost, the coach might say something like, "we played by the rules, they didn't". But it's true - that doesn't really matter. Kids don't want to say "we lost, BUT" - they want to say that they won!

29, your coach was put in a bad situation - it was too bad how it all ended up but I wouldn't hold it against him.

 

[Sparky Guy]

We had to bring in our 10th option at pitcher in the 4th because every other pitcher had already been used. So the argument is - we had to play by the rules, and they chose to ignore the rules or perhaps they just neglected to double check. In any event, I hate the way it ended. Why didn't we approach the other coach as the pitcher was warming up and tell him that we think he has already reached his max? Wouldn't that have been the "right" thing to do? Wouldn't that have been a great display of sportsmanship for the boys?

Your coach did everything possible by the rules to get his team a victory. I would bet the opposition's coach had pulled that same thing in the past, so your coach knew to keep a very close watch on the pitch count of the other teams pitchers. There is no shame in correctly using the rules to your advantage. They are there for a purpose.

As for sportsmanship. Your boys were taught the other team did not operate in a sportsman-like manner and it cost them. They witnessed the consequences of not following the rules that are put in place for all of the teams.

It is not up to your coach to help manage the other team, especially at that level of play. In fact I would give the coach a huge "atta boy" for knowing what was going on during the tournament.

 

[CoachKevin]

^^^^ This ^^^^

 

[SoCal_Dad]

Almost the second our coach came out and started talking to the ump, I overheard one of the other team's parents say "we just f---ing lost," which leads me to believe that they knew. ... So maybe they were trying to be sneaky? I don't know.

Sounds like they knew and being disqualified will hopefully keep them from trying it again.

I will probably just bite my tongue.

C'mon, you can brag about your son having the game winning AB!

Speaking of baseball, I'm surprised MLB is holding their All-Star Game at a minor league team's park this year. jk