The CWS shows bulletspin--rewriting the book on movement pitches

[schwabach]

Did anybody see the game last night when they did a super slow-mo of Canady's rise ball with what looked to me like bullet spin and the announcer was going on and on about how it was "6 to 12" spin?

I admittedly don't always read spin well, but unless I completely do not understand what 6 to 12 is supposed to look like, um, that wasn't it.

Your eyesight is fine. I was wondering the same thing.

Meanwhile, there was a play yesterday (Washington v. Florida, I believe) where there was a runner on 1st. Ball was hit hard to 2nd baseman who caught it in the air and threw to 1st. As this was happening, the runner on 1st took off to 2nd. Meanwhile, 1st baseman threw to 2nd and the runner was in a pickle. The runner ended up be safe back on 1st due to obstruction. I didn't quite understand this. I guess that when the initial throw was made to 1st, the 1st baseman was off the bag otherwise, wouldn't it have been a force on the runner who took off for 2nd.

My point is that this is an example of something the commentators could have explained.

It would be better if the CWS commentators take a note from MLB commentators and talk less about mechanics.

 

[PharmerBrown]

Your eyesight is fine. I was wondering the same thing.

Meanwhile, there was a play yesterday (Washington v. Florida, I believe) where there was a runner on 1st. Ball was hit hard to 2nd baseman who caught it in the air and threw to 1st. As this was happening, the runner on 1st took off to 2nd. Meanwhile, 1st baseman threw to 2nd and the runner was in a pickle. The runner ended up be safe back on 1st due to obstruction. I didn't quite understand this. I guess that when the initial throw was made to 1st, the 1st baseman was off the bag otherwise, wouldn't it have been a force on the runner who took off for 2nd.

My point is that this is an example of something the commentators could have explained.

It would be better if the CWS commentators take a note from MLB commentators and talk less about mechanics.

The ball was not caught in the air, so they got the batter with the initial throw to first. The runner was then not forced with the batter out, and was in a pickle between first and second.
I'm hoping they add some clarity to the obstruction rule during the off-season.

 

[_MIA_]

Did anybody see the game last night when they did a super slow-mo of Canady's rise ball with what looked to me like bullet spin and the announcer was going on and on about how it was "6 to 12" spin?

I admittedly don't always read spin well, but unless I completely do not understand what 6 to 12 is supposed to look like, um, that wasn't it.

I was thinking the same exact thing. I was like “Look at your damn monitor!!”

 

[schwabach]

The ball was not caught in the air, so they got the batter with the initial throw to first. The runner was then not forced with the batter out, and was in a pickle between first and second.
I'm hoping they add some clarity to the obstruction rule during the off-season.

Why wasn't it also a simple force at 2nd since the runner on 1st has to advance in case of a hit.

 

[flogzilla]

Why wasn't it also a simple force at 2nd since the runner on 1st has to advance in case of a hit.

Once you make the throw to first the force is off at second. if the runner behind you is out, you don't have to run anymore at that point.

If I'm reading this correctly as to what happened.

 

[schwabach]

Once you make the throw to first the force is off at second. if the runner behind you is out, you don't have to run anymore at that point.

If I'm reading this correctly as to what happened.

Thanks. I did not know that. Of course, during the years my daughter played softball, I went from being an expert (10U years) to understanding that there is much more to the game than I ever realized.

 

[sluggers]

Everything else being equal (eg velocity and spin rate) I wonder how much less (percentage-wise) down movement from the initial straight line trajectory a backspin rise has compared to a bullet-spin “pitch”…

The super-slow videos are decimating everything we thought we knew about breaking pitches. This is screaming for a dissertation, isn't it? Couldn't they do a simulator for this?

They've done some science with cricket balls (a cricket ball has a single seam) but I haven't seen anything on baseball or softball.

My observation is that the break is less on a bullet-spin rise than on a backspin rise.

You may not remember, but @riseball and I had a long discussion about this several years ago. He was adamant that a player could get movement by changing the finger pressure on the ball. At first I disagreed with him, but he convinced me that something was going on.

 

[Shawn]

 

[mmeece]

Have mentioned it a few times on here before but when my DD gets true back spin on the riseball it is 8-10mph slower than her fastball. She uses it as a very effective off speed pitch, it kind of just hovers in there.

When we want to go up in the zone we just use a high fastball. But her fastball normally has some top spin to it.

Would it be better to throw a bullet spin pitch when trying to go high in the zone to eliminate the top spin? Or will the riseball with proper back spin just speed up as she gets older and throws harder. Curious if she should actually learn bullet spin, normally it is an indicator she messed up the spin she was going for.


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The bullet spin pitch will drop less than a top spin pitch, so it should be more effective up in the zone. Of course, backspin will drop even less (maybe even rise?) than bullet spin. An off-speed rise is a great pitch so I would definitely continue to work on it. Bullet spin should be pretty easy to add to the mix if she wants to try it as a full speed pitch up in the zone.

 

[ArmWhip]

Almost all of the rises are bullet spin because of the velocity the women can throw it at. OU's second pitcher had a slight amount of back spin on her rise but it got hit over the wall for a Standford home run. She was in the 62-4 range with all her pitches, except for a change up. Sometimes you see the bullet spin tipped a little in the curve ball direction. I think that what goes unnoticed in these bullet rise balls is that most of the pitchers have their wrists cupped a little and when you combine this with IR you get some additional velocity. If you think about internally rotating the arm with the elbow flexed as normal but add in a cupped wrist the off center rotational velocity is increased.