The CWS shows bulletspin--rewriting the book on movement pitches

[DNeeld]

My guess would be hitters force baseball pitchers to hone their craft to a much greater degree than in softball.

Developing "proper" spin, as @sluggers noted, is an agonizingly tough endeavor. If a softball pitcher can coast by with velocity and pin point accuracy, what is the impetus to spend hours developing true spin?

 

[LEsoftballdad]

I have always wondered about the science behind the difference in breaking pitches between baseball and softball. A bigger ball means more surface are, but also more weight. I believe the softball is actually less dense so you would think it would be more affected by the Magnus force, especially with the higher seams. The shorter distance between the pitcher's plate and home makes it appear that the softball breaks less or doesn't break as sharply. If you threw a good palm up curve from the baseball pitching rubber I wonder what the break would look like with the 60ft distance? And then there's the difference in gripping the ball with the size difference. .

I have a brother-in-law who pitched at GA Tech in the late 1960s as a pitcher. We used to have a catch on my lawn when I was in HS. Every once in a while, we'd throw a softball instead of a baseball. One time, he decided to throw me his knuckleball, and he nearly killed me when the ball dropped about 3' in the last 5' of the ball's flight.

As much as he could get the baseball to move, the size of the softball made the movement so much more pronounced.

 

[CoachJD]

My guess would be hitters force baseball pitchers to hone their craft to a much greater degree than in softball.

And now we have teams worth a billion dollars and players making hundreds of millions who spend the entire off-season trying to figure out if they move their ring finger 2 millimeters to the left if that will give them an extra 6 inches of break on the pitch.

Yes, some of the technology is available to top college softball players, but the machine that's developing the highest level of baseball pitchers is just so much greater than what exists at P5 softball (to say nothing of lower levels).

 

[Tatonka]

Listening to "The Hair" last night trying to explain tunneling made me want to pull my hair out. IMHO tunneling your pitches is about making them all come through the same "window" before they start their break. If you can't read the seams you are just guessing which way it's going to break. Of course there may be other "tells" that could give it away but barring that you need to read the seams. If it's bullet spin then of course the seams are all moving the same direction and I'd still maintain it's more about speed and trajectory at that point as to whether it "drops" or "rises". Also, I believe that good spin matters a great deal when it comes to inducing ground or fly outs...contact has to be just that much more precise to park one.

Ray - to your initial point, I agree...lot's of bullet spin, some very decent front/down spin and not so much true back spin. Almost felt like Jordy Bahl was overthrowing thru her backspin and not getting the movement in her early innings when she was competing (and probably psychologically) trying to match that flamethrower (Pickens) from Tennessee ! After she settled down just a bit, she was on it.

 

[Hillhouse]

Don't confuse bad hitting with good pitching.

Yes, I know this is the WCWS and these are the ladies at the top of the game so to speak. But, there is still a major difference. I cannot speak to Fouts, I don't know her. Bahl has pretty true spin, or she did when we'd play catch. It's been a minute since I've got to see her.

2021, I was with the Olympic team, in the bullpens, throwing BP, etc. etc. I can tell you that Osterman had pretty true spin. Abbott's rise was more of a sidespin, almost curveball like which really surprised me. But she had tight dropball spin, both of them did. It kinda goes to show there is another level beyond what everyone is watching on TV now. I can also tell you guys that anyone wanting to go see the Men's championships, once you separate the men from the boys, you won't see anything that is not true spin. That is the only thing that provides true movement, not angles.

How do pitches with bad spin fool these hitters? Well, again, in my experience, most teams don't do a ton of live hitting. They do all this tee work, they do front toss, etc. but not a lot of real live hitting, especially before games. This was even true with the Olympic team, they wanted NOTHING in BP that wasn't straight down the middle. Don't make it go up, don't make it drop, don't alter speeds. Kelsey Stewart was the ONLY one who said I could mix in some pitches: after 3 pitches I threw her a change up and she literally fell down swinging at it. While it provided us with comic relief, she abruptly told me no more, keep it straight. True story.

I'd be interested to know if HR's are on the rise, or the same since the pitching rule changed allowing pitchers to have 1 foot on the rubber. While I applaud the rule change and think it's a step in the right direction, I also think pitchers are using it for extra power and neglecting the work of true spin. Just my opinion.

 

[_MIA_]

Don't confuse bad hitting with good pitching.

19-23 YO hitters and 19-23 pitchers . Go watch a Double A baseball game and then go watch a MLB game..night and day.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

19-23 YO hitters and 19-23 pitchers . Go watch a Double A baseball game and then go watch a MLB game..night and day.

If only Fidel Castro could have hit a curve ball. Oh, how history would have changed.

The difference between a career AAA player and a MLB player is the ability to hit the breaking pitches.

 

[Gtrips07]

If only Fidel Castro could have hit a curve ball. Oh, how history would have changed.

The difference between a career AAA player and a MLB player is the ability to hit the breaking pitches.

And what's between the ears.

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[Chilixa]

Have mentioned it a few times on here before but when my DD gets true back spin on the riseball it is 8-10mph slower than her fastball. She uses it as a very effective off speed pitch, it kind of just hovers in there.

When we want to go up in the zone we just use a high fastball. But her fastball normally has some top spin to it.

Would it be better to throw a bullet spin pitch when trying to go high in the zone to eliminate the top spin? Or will the riseball with proper back spin just speed up as she gets older and throws harder. Curious if she should actually learn bullet spin, normally it is an indicator she messed up the spin she was going for.


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[CoachJD]

Did anybody see the game last night when they did a super slow-mo of Canady's rise ball with what looked to me like bullet spin and the announcer was going on and on about how it was "6 to 12" spin?

I admittedly don't always read spin well, but unless I completely do not understand what 6 to 12 is supposed to look like, um, that wasn't it.