Teaching the high level pattern

[_MIA_]

On multiple occasions my DW and DD have told me I care too much..I think it is a male thing..

 

[Shawn]

I teach sequence. Kinetic chain. There aren’t really a set of drills. I try to give the player what they need. I teach getting into the back leg. The knee mostly. I teach walking away from the hands. I teach separation through sequential movement. I teach leverage through two legs but w a majority of pressure still back. Which comes at launch. I teach core contraction. I teach knob down to. I teach pivoting the swing through the front shoulder/arm/hand as well as throw the head w the top hand. I teach timing through situations/counts.

For me it’s about matching the power producers that the HOF pattern has. Will some use more force in other vectors than others? Sure. That’s why hitters rarely have the same look.

Thanks for your unbiased opinion CB.

I would like to see your student (daughter is fine) hitting in a game. I’ve seen your daughter once in a game. The swing was chaos, just trying to hit the ball. Make it a side view. It was just a swing, catchers view. It was completely different than the BP swing. At least I believe it was your daughter. That’s why I’m asking for a student so we can see how to apply it.

 

[Shawn]

How to apply the HOF swing.

 

[Work=wins]

I would like to see your student (daughter is fine) hitting in a game. I’ve seen your daughter once in a game. The swing was chaos, just trying to hit the ball. Make it a side view. It was just a swing, catchers view. It was completely different than the BP swing. At least I believe it was your daughter. That’s why I’m asking for a student so we can see how to apply it.

Chaos swing? I guess your referring to TMs definition? I don’t have many side views. All the games are streamed and the classic pitchers views are most popular for viewing a game.

Here’s one though. She’s hitting a change up off the wall (215 LF, 30ft high fence) for a double. I think it’s the only one I have from last year. There are no cheap HRs at my dds home field.

She adjusts through her lower half to get the change up out front. She drifts and sinks a bit on the ball of her front foot to do so.

 

[Eric F]

Aren’t you tired of teaching the same limp concepts? That match no one! Not even AJ. You don’t seem to realize that by teaching a system that you’re cookie cutting right?

You've seen Haley's swings. You've seen Maddie's swings. These two players started working with Mike at the same time, at the same age, and got instruction based on the same principles. Do they look identical to you? Teaching from a "system" is only "cookie cutter" if there is no variation for what the individual student is doing, and no adjustments based on how they are responding to the instruction.

 

[Shawn]

Chaos swing? I guess your referring to TMs definition? I don’t have many side views. All the games are streamed and the classic pitchers views are most popular for viewing a game.

Here’s one though. She’s hitting a change up off the wall (215 LF, 30ft high fence) for a double. I think it’s the only one I have from last year. There are no cheap HRs at my dds home field.

She adjusts through her lower half to get the change up out front. She drifts and sinks a bit on the ball of her front foot to do so.

Thanks. Chaos? Maybe be wrong. It was reverse kinetics, just a swing up the middle. I have the video.

Do you reconfigure the entire sequence OR just stretch a little longer on a off speed?

 

[Work=wins]

You've seen Haley's swings. You've seen Maddie's swings. These two players started working with Mike at the same time, at the same age, and got instruction based on the same principles. Do they look identical to you? Teaching from a "system" is only "cookie cutter" if there is no variation for what the individual student is doing, and no adjustments based on how they are responding to the instruction.

I believe Mike has mentioned that he didn’t change much w Maddie. With Haley he did a complete overhaul correct? I also believe you have stated many times that you don’t use all of TMs concepts. You taught her before Mike, correct? Mike also has said at times that he misunderstood some concepts and had to rethink his strategies to stay within the brands concepts but get things functional, correct? So it’s a mix and match type thing. I think at some point Mike couldn’t get Haley to hit or her timing was off so he asked for opinions and thoughts at DFP. Might have something to do w it?

I’m going off of memory so if I stated something false, please correct me.

 

[Rolling Hard]

I like showing different hitters with all of their flaws as they are learning. I really could have used the help 6 years ago but everyone was fighting over comparing a 12 yr old girl against a grown MLB player to prove HLP does not work. The look and expression on kids and parents faces when they have a breakthrough is priceless to me. I know what its like as an athlete and parent of an athlete to struggle. This site and people like Boardmember and Five Frame Swing were two that helped my coaching skills elevate to a higher level. I'm just trying to give a little of what was given to me back.

This is one of the reasons I am not a big fan of HLP. Most young players (7 to 12 y/o) don't have the arm and hand strength to snap the barrel without dumping the barrel so teaching them HLP forces a player to start all over again with a whole new swing/pattern when they acquire enough strength not to dump the barrel.

 

[Rolling Hard]

I teach sequence. Kinetic chain. There aren’t really a set of drills. I try to give the player what they need. I teach getting into the back leg. The knee mostly. I teach walking away from the hands. I teach separation through sequential movement. I teach leverage through two legs but w a majority of pressure still back. Which comes at launch. I teach core contraction. I teach knob down to. I teach pivoting the swing through the front shoulder/arm/hand as well as throw the head w the top hand. I teach timing through situations/counts.

For me it’s about matching the power producers that the HOF pattern has. Will some use more force in other vectors than others? Sure. That’s why hitters rarely have the same look.

Thanks for your unbiased opinion CB.

Can you elaborate? please.

 

[Eric F]

I believe Mike has mentioned that he didn’t change much w Maddie. With Haley he did a complete overhaul correct? I also believe you have stated many times that you don’t use all of TMs concepts. You taught her before Mike, correct? Mike also has said at times that he misunderstood some concepts and had to rethink his strategies to stay within the brands concepts but get things functional, correct? So it’s a mix and match type thing. I think at some point Mike couldn’t get Haley to hit or her timing was off so he asked for opinions and thoughts at DFP. Might have something to do w it?

I’m going off of memory so if I stated something false, please correct me.

Mike tends to understate how much difference he made with Maddie's mechanics. There are some things that were outside of the HLP box that Mike and I both agree on. In my observations and discussions with Mike, he uses HLP as his framework, but stepping outside that framework isn't an issue if that's what's going to help that particular hitter.

I tried to help Maddie with hitting when she was young, but there came a time when she and I could no longer work together in a coach-student setting. For the years previous to Mike, Maddie was getting hitting instruction from her TB HC, much of which I didn't agree with (push the knob, etc.). During that time, Maddie and I discussed some concepts, and some of them made sense to her, but I wasn't directly instructing her. It was also during that time that I was sorting out what I believed about swing mechanics. Maddie's work with Mike, and the discussions Mike and I shared, helped me gain a lot of clarity about what the HLP is, and why it makes sense.

Again, my point is that a "system" - HLP, or something else - is only "cookie cutter" if the teacher isn't adapting their lessons to the individual needs of the student, and how that student processes and applies those lessons. The end goal may be a swing that has a lot of common mechanical parts, but may or may not look the same. If I recall from the clips you have shared of your DD and another hitter you have worked with, they both have some common movement patterns and some similarities in their appearance. Such is the nature of things when you're working from an established set of beliefs about what is involved in high-quality swing mechanics.

EDIT: One of the things I admire most about Mike as a teacher is that he is constantly learning and trying to become a more effective instructor.