I should add that if she can't find the flexed elbow action in sling shot, or at any part in her progression you might have to use a 'constraint'. The simplest is a piece of KT tape fully stretched and applied to the inside of her elbow. The 'pulling' action of the tape will serve as a reminder. If you need something more substantial you might have to move to a cubital tunnel brace which keeps the elbow in flexed position.
Movement Pattern Mystery?
- Thread starter Blnfbbs
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You just gave me a great idea to help prevent arm barring when hitting.
First of all, thank you to everyone who has provided feedback, this forum is such a wonderful resource to help us navigate what is a difficult softball journey, especially for pitchers. Like most have said, I believe a combination of patterns has resulted in what we're seeing in the videos. Her drive is more up than out and lacks the oomph to keep her legs underneath her. This (and other things) likely contributed to the development of an arm approach to "force" speed which of course had the opposite effect. I love the suggestions about how to make her feel the arm bend, not being able to "feel it" is definitely hampering progress. We actually tried the 'small ball circle' this past weekend and she reported it felt super weird and short. I showed her the video and there was maybe slightly more bend, but certainly not extreme so this highlights the need to get them to "feel it". I look forward to trying the KT tape idea, I love that one. Again, thank you so much for the feedback, I've shared it with my daughter and it means a lot to her that you all are willing to help.
I see ghosts too... regarding your premature shoulder turn, try back chaining it further. Front foot angle and position can be very variable but once the foot lands, it will limit the angle and range of motion of all other joints downstream in the chain.
Her front foot seems to land pointing a few degrees more toward home in the new videos, causing earlier and greater hip and trunk rotation toward home, necessitating greater horizontal abduction of the shoulder as the arm is coming down, creating more strain on the shoulder joint, inducing earlier internal rotation (harder to stay externally rotated) and earlier elbow extension... and thus less whip.
Not saying the foot has to be at a certain angle, but a change in the angle will change the mechanics through the rest of the chain.
Hard to be definitive just from these videos, but that's my 2 cents.
Her front foot seems to land pointing a few degrees more toward home in the new videos, causing earlier and greater hip and trunk rotation toward home, necessitating greater horizontal abduction of the shoulder as the arm is coming down, creating more strain on the shoulder joint, inducing earlier internal rotation (harder to stay externally rotated) and earlier elbow extension... and thus less whip.
Not saying the foot has to be at a certain angle, but a change in the angle will change the mechanics through the rest of the chain.
Hard to be definitive just from these videos, but that's my 2 cents.
We just went through the same thing. DD had her big summer following a long HS season where she threw a ton of pitches. Rolled into travel ball season along with some big camps. Everything was going well and then she had some forearm pain towards the end of the summer. She missed the last day of a big tourney out of precaution. Took off a week and pitched in 18U nationals with no issues. Not much of a break between fall and a few last minute camps before she committed in Sept. Killed it during fall ball but from time to time would tell me she felt a pull in her forearm. Moved into HS season and it got bad enough that we shut her down and went to a specialist and an MRI confirmed a bone stress lesion without stress fracture. Shut her down for 12 weeks with no throwing and missed summer ball all together. Did another MRI 12 weeks later and everything was totally healed. She's back at it now pain free along with her velo and spin rate that got her recruited. We take a lot of videos and we started seeing some form changes at the end of the summer. I believe it was from overuse and trying to chase radar that summer. The way it was explained too us is things start getting fatigued and tired in the forearm. Flexor tendons and muscles get weak and then the ulna in our case started seeing more stress. Our Dr. who is one of the best in the country diagnosed it before confirming it with the MRI, and told us both it is an overuse injury. Once things weaken the body tries to compensate for it to avoid pain. The body is strange in that way, and as we started going back and looking at game footage DD could tell us when things started to change. She pinpointed when the pain started creeping in and as things progressed her form continued to get worse. My advice is to get her 100% healthy!! The timing always sucks for pitchers, but I know of at least 5 pitchers who have dealt with this in the last year two of them I guarantee you have been watching on TV. They are healthy and back at it. If you have any questions message me.
When we are trying to make a mechanical change I always tell the student that it will feel different and weird, but that's good, we want different. If it felt the same it would be the same action and we want different. Many times I use exaggeration to find the happy medium. For instance if I have a girl who isn't opening up enough or is closing too early I will ask them to get and stay completely sideways for the pitch. I don't want them to actually pitch that way but as a drill it opens them up to new movement solutions.
Thanks for the insight into what your DD went through. It does sound like our kids had a similar diagnosis. Our Dr. recommended 6 weeks of rest which she did, but she still reports intermittent mild pain, mostly throwing overhand rather than pitching. It would seem we didn't take enough time off. I do think overuse is a major factor in my DD's issue. She pitched 120 inns. in HS last Fall, then instead of resting, we felt compelled to do some camps over the winter (that was likely a mistake) and her mechanical issue cropped up by Feb. The pain presented much later, but as you mentioned the weakness could've led to other parts of the arm (ulna) picking up the slack and here we are. Once the mechanical issue occurred, she was definitely not overused, I think she had no more than 30 inn. from Feb-July, but the pain started anyway. She is not pitching much in HS now and it sounds like prolonged rest is the most immediate course of action. The timing is brutal since the schools we're currently talking to will move on, but it is what it is I suppose.
I couldn't agree more. I've told her something very similar, the motion should feel different and that is the point of the drill. Getting her to embrace the approach is another matter.
- May 7, 2008
- 174
- 18
per many of the above "lost arm whip" is the causal symptom. Issue is why she lost the arm whip? its a bit hard to see but in the Recent video her hip angle to the power line at foot plant is 90 degrees. In the Old her hip angle is like 70 - so a little bit closed. This hip angle helps trigger the IR of the arm as a NATURAL body friendly motion and is the proper angle to facilitate IR.
so reconstructed history === over opening loses whip, speed drops, trys harder and harder extra effort straightens out arm as she spins it harder and harder, release gets late, bends over to keep ball down, trys harder and harder, arms wears out/tires and injury occurs..... or something like that.
fix is to relearn to not overopen hip on drive off mound. do simple step push off mound ( not drive just step tp relearn the proper angle) with a very light ball ( wiffle???) focus on hip angle and bent elbow , an d top of forearm contact with hip as IR triggers. Somebody said it earlier...lower body issue causing the upper body problems. Consider shortening step back ( see below) to 8-10"
editorial: with the newish step back rule I am seeing more and more hip angle issues as players drop the stride leg further and further back and their drive off the mound becomes stride leg throwing not drive leg driving. This allows the drive leg to pivot in place resulting in opening up too far. (In the videos Her step back looked the same before and after best I could tell but its a pretty healthy step back , > 16"???) Sometimes one thing leads to another ...... over time. She is old enough to have learned with 2 feet in contact.
so reconstructed history === over opening loses whip, speed drops, trys harder and harder extra effort straightens out arm as she spins it harder and harder, release gets late, bends over to keep ball down, trys harder and harder, arms wears out/tires and injury occurs..... or something like that.
fix is to relearn to not overopen hip on drive off mound. do simple step push off mound ( not drive just step tp relearn the proper angle) with a very light ball ( wiffle???) focus on hip angle and bent elbow , an d top of forearm contact with hip as IR triggers. Somebody said it earlier...lower body issue causing the upper body problems. Consider shortening step back ( see below) to 8-10"
editorial: with the newish step back rule I am seeing more and more hip angle issues as players drop the stride leg further and further back and their drive off the mound becomes stride leg throwing not drive leg driving. This allows the drive leg to pivot in place resulting in opening up too far. (In the videos Her step back looked the same before and after best I could tell but its a pretty healthy step back , > 16"???) Sometimes one thing leads to another ...... over time. She is old enough to have learned with 2 feet in contact.
