How to stop walk-athon in 10u?

[CoachCeetar]

Modified rules that are left in place as the players age up are actually holding back learning the true pace and strategy of the game. Watching modified rules at a 12u level is almost disgraceful when there are 12u players that are competing at such an extraordinarily better level. The disparity is massive.

If you're in a league where everyone's that committed, fine. If you're not, if you don't have modified rules, even at 12u, you're going to have kids quit who can't hack it at 11 but maybe would by 13-14 and now you're wondering why the 14u/JV and up teams suck and have trouble finding kids.

 

[ninthgirl]

I recognize there are some players and families that put in the work. But there is a difference when people are signing up for a league that says anybody can play without having any standards of what's on the field. And everybody gets to participate whether they show up at practice or not. Perhaps having standards like if you want to call yourself a pitcher you have to be able to hit this door in front of you 5 out of 10 times. Having a standard will step up what's happening on the field.

Instead of making adjustment to the rules because people can't play the sport on the field

When you find me a recreational league that has so many people it can turn away those who just want to drop their kid off for 2 hours of babysitting during practice and games, I will move across the country so my kids can play in it.

Realistically you have to form teams where coaches and the hard working families set the tone so the bad eggs either decide to step up or just don't drag everyone else down too much. But if we're talking anything that doesn't require tryouts, you really can't have these kind of standards (at least not where I live).

 

[earlg3]

If everyone did modified pitch in 8u, it'd solve a lot of these problems. Going cold-turkey into 10u doesn't do anyone any good, and there's really no reason girls can't be throwing in 8u -- plus, it's already bogus rules with the coach throwing meatballs down the middle of the plate anyway, so no harm done.

 

[CoachCeetar]

Why do you think those players are still underdeveloped at age 13 or 14?

they're not, they quit. They're playing soccer, doing theater, student council, etc because they were slower to develop, choose softball, and got thrown into the deep end at 12u with no guard rails and were overwhelmed.

They think they're not good softball players but they really just needed a little more guidance, reps, and the chance to do that without every mistake being game-defining.


To actually get back on topic.. who's going to pitch at 12u? Kids that pitched at 10u. How to we minimize this walkathon and maximize the development of the pitchers that are doing the walking, so when they move up, they're actually better?

What city leagues have is a revolving door of new kids coming in and going out. And volunteer parents babysitting throughout the season. Hopefully there are some out there who are actually coaching and developing players! But not every city league has anything developmental going on.

City? maybe. big place. Smaller town? not so much. Which is my point. YOU NEED THESE PLAYERS, and if you bully them into quitting because you want to make 12u "real" softball, you won't have them later.

If everyone did modified pitch in 8u, it'd solve a lot of these problems. Going cold-turkey into 10u doesn't do anyone any good, and there's really no reason girls can't be throwing in 8u -- plus, it's already bogus rules with the coach throwing meatballs down the middle of the plate anyway, so no harm done.

I think this is a big thing. We don't do that here, "8u" is coach pitch first/second grade coach-pitch slog. I've got an incoming second grader next year. We do have a casual 'friendlies' 2nd grade travel team but no one's pitching, I think we have to change that, at least go into the winter before kid-pitch with a handful of girls having thrown real softball pitches.

 

[RADcatchers]

What the modified rules don't make up for is bad coaching.

Add - modified rules are not a good replacement for lack of effort!

They're playing soccer, doing theater, student council,

Yep people do different things because they are activities. Activity level involvement. Not necessarily commitment level involvement.

How to we minimize this walkathon and maximize the development of the pitchers that are doing the walking, so when they move up, they're actually better?

It is up to individuals to step up. Or the league to step up standards. (unfortunately having to enforce a standard individuals to step up). Difficult dilemma!
That's why I commented there are two categories the picnic category where the score and rules don't actually matter. Or when the game and its rules do matter including the score!

That is why there are different options for people!

Because people are looking for different opportunities and results.

 

[CoachCeetar]

And they are. no one doubts that. We're not talking about the club/travel teams run by professionals. I bet they don't really have as much walkathon stuff, because they've got buy-in, time, lessons with real pitching coaches, and a pipeline that doesn't have the numbers crunch that forces 8 year olds to play 10u.

Obviously this will lead to real competitive 12u options. But having modified 12u for everyone else is not disgraceful, it's actually a great thing.

 

[RADcatchers]

modified 12u for everyone else is not disgraceful, it's actually a great thing.

It is nice to have options for the different levels people want to play at. But I do think the disparity of talent is ginormous between 12u modified City League and what can be accomplished at the same 12u age bracket.
imo it is disgraceful that there are such underdeveloped players in a society that has so much available tools to grow beyond that!

Specifically commenting to the ones who want to get better. It would be nice if the city League's would make sure all kids can throw and catch and have a batting stance would be a good thing! But even that seems to be getting neglected.

 

[Strike2]

No walks at all feels too far in the anti-competitive range, and doesn't really teach the hitters much who see 4 rolled balls and then tee-off on a front-toss lob from someone that knows exactly where they like to swing.

I don't think big strike zones are really teaching any bad habits either. I think at these levels it's much more important for the kids to be learning to track, swing, and connect with pitches than discerning precise strike zone location and when to NOT swing. Because you know what teaches them to lay off pitches in the opposite batters box? Reaching to hit them and tapping out softly to first base. And no batter that's got a 'polished'/balanced swing is going to do that. They might swing at one at their shoulders and pop up instead of driving it, but at this level that's probably a hit, and they can refine their zone as they get older.

It seems like at some point, kids/pitchers have to take their lumps, and get those reps in even if it's a slog sometimes. That's what I'm gathering from all this.

The BEST thing you can do, outside of changing league rules that most of us can't do, is find as much time for pitching practice as you can, as early as you can, and the coaches should know how to teach the fundamentals of the arm circle, good whip and all that. You gotta muscle-memory that stuff for them. This is obviously easier said than done, but like 95% of solutions to softball problems like this seem to boil down to just 'reps'.

It's a balance of course, between getting everyone reps and getting the 'best' kids reps, but in the walkathon situation, there might be an argument for "find the 1 or 2 pitchers that can repeat decent mechanics for a whole inning, and give them most of the innings". Of course, when you realize it's the coach(es) kids' that are the ones with good mechanics/taking lessons, maybe that becomes a whole different issue, but..

If want to run young/new players out the game, then make it a "slog". Don't know what age you coach at, but I've seen the whole show...T-ball through college. Coached through 18U. T-Ball - 10U REC is about development of players, not just pitchers. A whole lot of rules are modified at those age levels, and a whole lot of good development happens when the ball gets put into play. It's also far more interesting for everyone.

Saying "develop pitchers" is all well and good, but there are practical realities in the Rec leagues I've seen. Not talking about 10U competitive/tournament ball...talking about REC ball...new players and those not yet ready (for whatever reason) for competitive ball. I worked extensively with my own kids outside of practice, and brought in pitching coaches on my own dime to evaluate and teach volunteers. Occasionally, I found someone with some ability, but even that didn't necessarily equate to three strikes per batter. Walks are a part of the game, but one walk after another at any age/level sucks, and is to be avoided. The answer isn't to make the hitter swing at "whatever" floats by.

 

[PJR202]

Why does everyone want to reinvent the wheel when it comes to coach pitch? 4 balls and the coach comes in to finish the at-bat to a hit or three stikes. It works fine. The only downside is that some of the girls will let everything go until the coach gets there, but most don't do that. You get anything reasonably close, and the kids are swinging. Why would we want to change the amount of balls/strikes, or create any other rules that aren't a game rule in order to save 15 minutes of play?

 

[CoachCeetar]

If want to run young/new players out the game, then make it a "slog". Don't know what age you coach at, but I've seen the whole show...T-ball through college. Coached through 18U. T-Ball - 10U REC is about development of players, not just pitchers. A whole lot of rules are modified at those age levels, and a whole lot of good development happens when the ball gets put into play. It's also far more interesting for everyone.

Saying "develop pitchers" is all well and good, but there are practical realities in the Rec leagues I've seen. Not talking about 10U competitive/tournament ball...talking about REC ball...new players and those not yet ready (for whatever reason) for competitive ball. I worked extensively with my own kids outside of practice, and brought in pitching coaches on my own dime to evaluate and teach volunteers. Occasionally, I found someone with some ability, but even that didn't necessarily equate to three strikes per batter. Walks are a part of the game, but one walk after another at any age/level sucks, and is to be avoided. The answer isn't to make the hitter swing at "whatever" floats by.

My eldest is 9, pitching for a year. We're in a 3rd/4th town travel league, that's essentially 10u, just 10u C, or second division, or whatever you want to call it. We do our best, but numbers games pushes kids up. I also have a first grader who just finished our first/second rec 'league'. Our 3/4 rec league has 2 walk limit per inning, then coach pitch. It's a reasonable balance, but imo I'd keep that rule or something similar for this travel league, often against just a subset of the same players.


sure, that's the other end of the spectrum for sure, and the point of this thread. Noting again that most people asking these questions don't really have much power to change the league rules. Some games are sloggier than others, and these pitchers are learning, so some days they're on and it's mostly fine.

Our first game we outhit them 16-8, lost 19-18. Our pitches walked 19, theirs 13. We went to the unlimited runs final inning down 15-8, scored 10 runs on 7 walks and 6 hits. Lost on a walkoff with 2 outs on a grounder to second that the fielder couldn't get to second in time and then just "speed of game" stuff didn't get the ball in fast enough and the winning run that was on second scored. It was fun.

A lot of those hits on balls out of the zone, to be clear. I'm not saying anything close should be a strike, but I think it's extremely reasonable to suggest that maybe 2" off the plate and like, anything the hitter doesn't have to look up to hit is not encouraging 9 year olds to get in such a terrible habit that by 11 they have no chance at learning a little more disciplined approach to selecting pitches to swing at. The top levels of the game, hitters often do in fact drive the ball in some of these spots.

And that's something coaches can maybe affect. pre-game meeting with the other team and the ump "Hey, we like to encouraging swinging, we're okay with a little big of a larger zone" Realistically, maybe it converts 3-4 walks to strikeouts over the course of a game, but maybe it gets you an extra inning in too. I've coached upwards of 40-50 of this level game now, and the ones with the bigger strike zone, even if sometimes frustratingly too big (Above the neck, low and in the opposite river) always feel like better "softball games".