How to stop walk-athon in 10u?

[The Man In Blue]

Flip side of this is creating really bad batting habits and really bad swings trying to swing at things that are not strikes. I like the 6 ball idea or no walks 4 balls and then machine or coach pitches.


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Going to use Angi’s post to break out this soapbox again …

Not all strikes are meant to be hit and not all balls are meant to be watched.

Teaching kids to only hit in the strike zone is a disservice. (Admitted bias: I was a high ball, first pitch hitter and I believe taking a perfect pitch on 3-0 should result in 10 minutes in the penalty box for the coach who gave that sign.)

 

[canyonjoe]

Until you have pitchers that can throw strikes there is no game. It's just a waste of time and makes any normal athlete get bored of the sport. Even worse is if you do find a really good pitcher she also just strikes everyone out. I think every league needs to look at what they have and see if they can find some pitchers. It requires work every day just to get decent and still not enough. If you have a good 8U program you can start working on them at that age but if you don't you need to have it modified.

 

[dbronstein]

Teaching kids to only hit in the strike zone is a disservice. (Admitted bias: I was a high ball, first pitch hitter and I believe taking a perfect pitch on 3-0 should result in 10 minutes in the penalty box for the coach who gave that sign.)

I don't think you should ever have a take sign in rec, especially 10U. You want to encourage swinging the bat, not looking for walks.

My thinking is at 10U rec you should start with an 0-1 count and have coach pitch on ball 4. Again, get the girls swinging the bats, and if a pitcher isn't throwing strikes, then everyone still gets to play softball with the coach pitch. I also think you need to restrict stealing to just third. In 5 or 6 years I was involved in 10U, I saw one legit caught stealing at second (there was another where the runner overran the base). It also keeps the force in play to help them learn the game.

 

[ninthgirl]

I don't think you should ever have a take sign in rec, especially 10U. You want to encourage swinging the bat, not looking for walks.

My thinking is at 10U rec you should start with an 0-1 count and have coach pitch on ball 4. Again, get the girls swinging the bats, and if a pitcher isn't throwing strikes, then everyone still gets to play softball with the coach pitch. I also think you need to restrict stealing to just third. In 5 or 6 years I was involved in 10U, I saw one legit caught stealing at second (there was another where the runner overran the base). It also keeps the force in play to help them learn the game.

The 0-1 count really irritates 10U pitchers who can throw strikes. We allow it for newbies, but one game my older pitcher, who at the time hit the strike zone about 50% of the time, was told she had to start with the 0-1 count. It really threw her off because at that point she was perfectly capable of keeping the coach out of the circle for most batters.

We do restrict stealing to just 3rd in our rec program and I agree it's useful to help the catchers learn to try and throw to third and even second. There's a bit of a learning curve when they move to travel ball or 12U and have to learn when not to throw, but they learn that lesson real fast.

 

[Strike2]

No walks, no stealing home, no mandatory swings, and no ridiculously big strike zone.

Start with an 0-1, if you like. Coach comes out at Ball 4 and has however many strikes remain in the count. Problem solved...the game moves along just fine, and everyone gets a chance to learn. The biggest challenge is having a coach who can consistently throw strikes. It's a superpower.

 

[CoachCeetar]

No walks, no stealing home, no mandatory swings, and no ridiculously big strike zone.

Start with an 0-1, if you like. Coach comes out at Ball 4 and has however many strikes remain in the count. Problem solved...the game moves along just fine, and everyone gets a chance to learn. The biggest challenge is having a coach who can consistently throw strikes. It's a superpower.

No walks at all feels too far in the anti-competitive range, and doesn't really teach the hitters much who see 4 rolled balls and then tee-off on a front-toss lob from someone that knows exactly where they like to swing.

I don't think big strike zones are really teaching any bad habits either. I think at these levels it's much more important for the kids to be learning to track, swing, and connect with pitches than discerning precise strike zone location and when to NOT swing. Because you know what teaches them to lay off pitches in the opposite batters box? Reaching to hit them and tapping out softly to first base. And no batter that's got a 'polished'/balanced swing is going to do that. They might swing at one at their shoulders and pop up instead of driving it, but at this level that's probably a hit, and they can refine their zone as they get older.

It seems like at some point, kids/pitchers have to take their lumps, and get those reps in even if it's a slog sometimes. That's what I'm gathering from all this.

The BEST thing you can do, outside of changing league rules that most of us can't do, is find as much time for pitching practice as you can, as early as you can, and the coaches should know how to teach the fundamentals of the arm circle, good whip and all that. You gotta muscle-memory that stuff for them. This is obviously easier said than done, but like 95% of solutions to softball problems like this seem to boil down to just 'reps'.

It's a balance of course, between getting everyone reps and getting the 'best' kids reps, but in the walkathon situation, there might be an argument for "find the 1 or 2 pitchers that can repeat decent mechanics for a whole inning, and give them most of the innings". Of course, when you realize it's the coach(es) kids' that are the ones with good mechanics/taking lessons, maybe that becomes a whole different issue, but..

 

[RADcatchers]

What it seems like is people want to
skip the learning and developmental part and just make adjustments to the rules of the game to make a compromise for the underdeveloped situation. Which I do not think is the right approach.


How I see it is if the rules and schematic of the game going to be so tweaked and changed that it no longer resembles what the sport actually is, takes players the wrong direction. Stop trying to create some 'other than sb game' that's going to be such a lousy compromise it's not beneficial. Players do not learn real softball.

It is time to pick one or the other.


You are either going to have a picnic style softball game where nothing matters.

Or

Create an appropriate environment where young people are taught skills to develop to where they can actually participate at game level. Which means that perhaps for the beginner levels there are no games. it's all development. And the next year you can have players that can throw and catch. And a pitcher that can get that pitch more consistently through a strike zone area. And batters can actually have a stance and swing.

 

[ninthgirl]

What it seems like is people want to skip the learning and developmental part and just make adjustments to the rules of the game to make a compromise for the underdeveloped situation. Which I do not think is the right approach.


How I see it is if the rules and schematic of the game going to be so tweaked and changed that it no longer resembles what the sport actually is, takes players the wrong direction. Stop trying to create some 'other than sb game' that's going to be such a lousy compromise it's not beneficial. Players do not learn real softball.

It is time to pick one or the other.


You are either going to have a picnic style softball game where nothing matters.

Or

Create an appropriate environment where young people are taught skills to develop to where they can actually participate at game level. Which means that perhaps for the beginner levels there are no games. it's all development. And the next year you can have players that can throw and catch. And a pitcher that can get that pitch more consistently through a strike zone area. And batters can actually have a stance and swing.

My beginner pitchers who had no walks would have (would currently) hated no games. Yes, they both grinded through 4 months of pitching clinic and practice with Bucket Dad, but they were ready for games after that. And last spring when our 10U rec championship went into extra innings and was won on a walk-off didn't at all feel like "picnic style softball games where nothing matters." Almost half the girls on that field went on to travel ball afterwards and are doing well, and a big part of that was the development they got under the modified rules.

What the modified rules don't make up for is bad coaching. But with modified rules and a good coach there's a ton of room to work on fundamentals and defensive situations and such that then are critical at the next level. Having a modified rules game actually does mean your players are working on throwing and catching. But it gives them something to practice for. For example, if there's no stealing home and limits on bases taken on an overthrow, then it means that players who are still learning can give it a try and have fun with it without giving up 3 runs.

Games with guard rails don't make nothing matter. They make the game fun when people are still learning, and give the learning a point. I've seen it done terribly and I've seen it done fabulously (within the same league!), but it really can be done well.

 

[RADcatchers]

I recognize there are some players and families that put in the work. But there is a difference when people are signing up for a league that says anybody can play without having any standards of what's on the field. And everybody gets to participate whether they show up at practice or not. Perhaps having standards like if you want to call yourself a pitcher you have to be able to hit this door in front of you 5 out of 10 times. Having a standard will step up what's happening on the field.

Instead of making adjustment to the rules because people can't play the sport on the field

 

[RADcatchers]

Definitely there is diversity between people's goals and efforts!

What the modified rules don't make up for is bad coaching.

Better coaching means there is no need for modified rules. That's *one of the reasons people who apply themselves leave City or for better opportunity.


imo- Modified rules that are left in place as the players age up are actually holding back learning the true pace and strategy of the game. Watching modified rules at a 12u level is almost disgraceful when there are 12u players that are competing at such an extraordinarily better level. The disparity is massive.


Locally there are two separate City leagues in our city. Speaking of 12u-
One has five run rule every inning and the other one got rid of it.
The league that got rid of the five-run rule. Has experienced pitchers/defense getting better!
Perhaps it is from the pressure of actually having to keep facing batters. Or knowing that the rules aren't going to help you out of the inning
you actually have to do it yourself!...
and so...
? the defense had to Bear down and figure out how to get three outs.
? And guess what they did!?