Switching pitchers to mess up the other team

[RADcatchers]

Outside of a college roster,

Most softball Teams generally carry/utilize 3 pitchers.
Planning the day / weekend / tournament schedule would be much more important...
Taking a pitcher out halfway through a game might be the smartest to give a break if they are to pitch or start the next game.


Different
Then how big time college teams have larger pitching roster to select from.
Particularly notice that college teams will exchange pitchers when they are dominating the other team. Which tends to be happening quite a bit with or against certain programs.

Sb, definitely not comparable to MLB pitching rosters. Even little league bb for that matter.

 

[RADcatchers]

Ps, what happened to all the pitch count fanatics,
should be happy about pitchers splitting time...

 

[steve1244]

In a single game, good hitters will eventually figure out good pitchers the more times they see that pitcher's pitches. If your team has multiple pitchers, it makes sense to consider rotating them in, especially in high leverage 7 inning games. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the coach, though, if you're taking out a pitcher is pitching well.

 

[tomorrow]

I think you get a better product out of young pitchers if you rotate them in with the spoken plan before the game even starts that you will use 2 pitchers. It gives them more time to grow in confidence since mental and physical fatigue is less of an issue. The hitters not being able to time your pitcher is just a bonus.

 

[CoachJD]

I think I'll go back and re-watch some CWS games through the lens of how they use their staffs. Might be a little more analogous than MLB to a youth team; smaller staff, fewer innings in a game. MLB gets pretty calculated and specialized with middle relievers, set-up men, closers, pitching to one batter, lefty v. righty matchups, etc.
My perception is during regular season, college teams throw their stud like a dam holding back the offensive water. If no cracks appear in the dam that you can't fix you simply stay with it. When a troublesome crack does appear, put in a new dam before too much water can get downstream. I do think NCAA playoffs are trending more toward MLB where a new dam sometimes appears before any cracks emerge.

I don't think how MLB deploys their relievers has much to do with the data that shows how much better hitters do against starters the third time through the order.

I'd bet if you had data for youth teams, the offensive production would increase along the same lines.

In fact, the reason college teams don't just ride one pitcher every game as much anymore is likely because of this data, which I'm certain the top college teams have.

I think the biggest factor to consider is how good your other pitchers are, also giving some thought to just how dominant your starter is.

Also, the OP didn't say if we're talking about multi-game tournament days, but maybe the coach is trying to save the best pitcher for more important innings. We really don't know.

 

[steve1244]

I don't think how MLB deploys their relievers has much to do with the data that shows how much better hitters do against starters the third time through the order.

I'd bet if you had data for youth teams, the offensive production would increase along the same lines.

In fact, the reason college teams don't just ride one pitcher every game as much anymore is likely because of this data, which I'm certain the top college teams have.

I think the biggest factor to consider is how good your other pitchers are, also giving some thought to just how dominant your starter is.

Also, the OP didn't say if we're talking about multi-game tournament days, but maybe the coach is trying to save the best pitcher for more important innings. We really don't know.

This applies to the biggest games of the year, like PGF/Alliance bracket or Power Pool-type games, where you're playing teams that, up and down the order, can work deep into counts and foul off pitches until they find one they like, and the blues have tight zones. In those types of games, by the third time through the order, every hitter knows the pitcher's pitch portfolio, best pitches, movements, pitch call sequences, likely pitch calls in specific counts, etc. My daughter is a pitcher and, as an example, her pitch count by the fifth inning in these types of games was 2x what it usually was in standard tournaments. So, just because of the amount of information the batters have, the odds start tilting. And, then you add the fatigue factor and that tilts things more. Watching these types of good hitting teams amass info and then being able to use it, on the fly, in at bats was pretty amazing.

 

[curveballer124]

I have been a parent in two teams now (I’ve volunteered to assist with this second team) where I have had the coaches and a couple of parents that swear by the idea of changing pitchers just to “mess up” the other batters. I don’t get it. Unless you’re changing mid-at bat, it can’t seem to matter much from trip through the lineup 1 with pitcher A and trip through the lineup 2 with pitcher B or am I completely missing something here? I have seen coaches pull pitchers, that are killing it, solely based on this idea. For reference I’m talking about 12U B level ball. My question is, am I missing something or are the coaches that believe in this wrong/overestimating what this does to batters?

Makes no sense especially at B level ball pitchers tend to be green still. Even at upper level ball thats pretty risky unless you have some proven vets out there throwing for you. I don't change pitchers unless one of two things my pitcher is no longer effective or they are starting to figure her out.

 

[CoachJD]

This applies to the biggest games of the year, like PGF/Alliance bracket or Power Pool-type games, where you're playing teams that, up and down the order, can work deep into counts and foul off pitches until they find one they like, and the blues have tight zones. In those types of games, by the third time through the order, every hitter knows the pitcher's pitch portfolio, best pitches, movements, pitch call sequences, likely pitch calls in specific counts, etc. My daughter is a pitcher and, as an example, her pitch count by the fifth inning in these types of games was 2x what it usually was in standard tournaments. So, just because of the amount of information the batters have, the odds start tilting. And, then you add the fatigue factor and that tilts things more. Watching these types of good hitting teams amass info and then being able to use it, on the fly, in at bats was pretty amazing.

It applies to high school games, and not necessarily high level ones, too.

Hitters of all levels do better the more times they see a pitcher. How much better depends on a lot of factors.

 

[CoachJD]

or they are starting to figure her out.

If you wait until they've figured her out, you've probably waited too long.

That's the whole point of the discussion. You're removing pitchers because the data shows that hitters figure pitchers out.

 

[curveballer124]

If you wait until they've figured her out, you've probably waited too long.

That's the whole point of the discussion. You're removing pitchers because the data shows that hitters figure pitc

The thing is its tuff to know when to pull them, its one thing if they give up a big hit on a good pitch that maybe the batter just threw their hands at and its another thing altogether when the batters are touching every pitch out of their hand and fouling off at will. It comes down to knowing your pitcher thats my experience. I've been throwing mens fastpitch for the better half of 20 years now and I cant count the number of times a manager pulled me to put in another pitcher because he thought the batters were "figuring me out" only to have to pull that pitcher because he was getting lite up and put me back in.... Ive been on both ends of that!