Recruiting questions - divisions/conferences/expectations

[SoftballMom98]

We're trying to get all this recruiting stuff straight. DD wants to choose a school for it's academics (she has the grades and HS rigor) but also wants to continue to play. We thought there were just 3 buckets of schools (D1, D2 & D3) but getting into it are finding out that even within the divisions, the conference matters. Yes, common sense, some schools are better than others, some D3 programs could dominate some D1 programs, etc. We knew all about the Power 5 but are now reading about mid major / low major schools, certain conferences travel more than others, some D3 schools (NESCAC) are very travel heavy, etc. Being realistic, DD can play D1 in mid to low schools, probably more towards the low if she actually wants to see field time. D3 was very appealing because she also wants a balance because academics is very important to her however we're finding certain conferences are very travel heavy. So my specific questions...

What is the typical commitment for D1 / D2 / D3 and is it the same across the divisions? For example, is the level of commitment the same for all D1 schools or are certain conferences (ie Patriot League, Ivy League) less demanding? I've heard in the fall, D1 & D2 is about 20+ hours a week, 6 days a week whereas D3 has a certain number of days they can use for practice (but then there are captain practices, lift expectations, NESCAC is higher travel, etc). How can I find this general information?
D1 - What are some lower mid-major conferences/schools and is there such a thing as low-major conferences?
Ivy Leagues - Anyone have any information on how those teams are managed (can academics come first?)
D2 - what are some higher academic schools (focus will be sciences)
D3 - She'll need merit money here and we've read some schools will only give need-based help (ie Tufts), is this also true for D3 recruited athletes? Bonus if anyone has suggestions on higher academic schools that are generous with money (I know everyone is looking for this).

Thanks for reading this long post. I'll keep reading past topics but appreciate any insight!

 

[Orange Socks]

We're trying to get all this recruiting stuff straight. DD wants to choose a school for it's academics (she has the grades and HS rigor) but also wants to continue to play. We thought there were just 3 buckets of schools (D1, D2 & D3) but getting into it are finding out that even within the divisions, the conference matters. Yes, common sense, some schools are better than others, some D3 programs could dominate some D1 programs, etc. We knew all about the Power 5 but are now reading about mid major / low major schools, certain conferences travel more than others, some D3 schools (NESCAC) are very travel heavy, etc. Being realistic, DD can play D1 in mid to low schools, probably more towards the low if she actually wants to see field time. D3 was very appealing because she also wants a balance because academics is very important to her however we're finding certain conferences are very travel heavy. So my specific questions... You are on the track. Lots of nuance to this as you have mentioned. Lots of players could play at mid majors that chose the D3 route. Even at the mid majors kids flush out due to many circumstances. Not enough playing time, coaches are nuts, time commitments, want to party instead(you can still do this but within limits, home sick, just not prepared, this list goes on. Finding the right fit is paramount to kid thriving in college. DD was able to make an immediate impact when she stepped on campus while the other kids ended up being practice players. Each and every program will be different even within the conferences so it's hard to paint a broad brush. Example: Patriot League. BU is at a different level than Holy Cross or Lafayette. You get the point. You will need to continue your research to figure what is best for you player and your family. This is your 1st post. Stick around and you will learn more. You are already ahead of the game compared to 90% of parents. Be realistic about your situation and your DD's abilities, wants, needs, academics, location to home, etc.

What is the typical commitment for D1 / D2 / D3(All Divisions there is a commitment) and is it the same across the divisions? NO For example, is the level of commitment the same for all D1 schools or are certain conferences (ie Patriot League, Ivy League) less demanding? (Even within a conference there will varying levels of commitment based on the individual programs)I've heard in the fall, D1 & D2 is about 20+ hours a week, 6 days a week whereas D3 has a certain number of days they can use for practice (but then there are captain practices, lift expectations, NESCAC is higher travel, etc). (True)How can I find this general information? Good luck! This requires due diligence on your part by talking to as many people as possible that have been associated with each program. This is the process and there are no short cuts. Even within a conference and D3's there are "coach requirements". I know a coach that makes the players text them when they arrive back at their apt/dorms. This is all dependent on the coach and you will need to vet each program.
D1 - What are some lower mid-major conferences/schools and is there such a thing as low-major conferences? A very rudimentary way to look at college softball rankings both overall by division and then by conference is https://masseyratings.com/ This will help you understand where each school falls based competition.
Ivy Leagues - Anyone have any information on how those teams are managed (can academics come first?)Others can comment on this. DD had several Ivy TB teammates. Less rigorous schedule(some play a tough non conference schedule--look at past scheduels) and academics are obvisouly high importance.
D2 - what are some higher academic schools (focus will be sciences) DD's former team in Texas is known as a STEM-Nerdy school that is moving up to D2. Others can comment with more knowledge. Former teammates are now Vets and PA's and Drs.
D3 - She'll need merit money here and we've read some schools will only give need-based help (ie Tufts), is this also true for D3 recruited athletes? Bonus if anyone has suggestions on higher academic schools that are generous with money (I know everyone is looking for this). This is sticky situation for nearly all families. FAFSA is in play here. DD didn't get any merit money because it was reserved for those NARP's that were looking at they Ivies with super high scores and needed $$$. It was there but out of reach even for the low 30's ACT scores.

You might be able to use the search function on this site as there has been lots of threads discussing this.

 

[Hillhouse]

Softballmom, I have no doubt you will have a lot of replies to this from parents who've gone through the recruiting process before you. I can only speak to recruiting from an outsider and as a coach not as a parent. I have worked D1 softball before and the rulebook for NCAA is the same, division by division but there are some exceptions. Things like Ivy league schools do not offer athletic scholarship, despite being D1 which is the same classification as Oklahoma. One spends almost $7M annually, the other might be $7. lol.

The hours per week you mentioned: In division 1 for example, there's what's called windows of time. Recruiting windows for example. There are times of the year when coaches are not allowed to recruit. They can't make calls, they can't email or host kids on visits. This is called Dead time. I think the #1 mistake people make, actually its not even a mistake it's just bad info or uniformed: if your kid is not at least a Junior in HS, then the schools cannot reply to her. So prior to Sept 1 of her junior year, she can email, call, text, send old fashioned letters, smoke signals, pigeon's with a note tied to the foot, or any other way you can think of to contact her favorite school. But, those schools are not allowed to reply to her emails, texts, or calls until that magical day of Sept 1 that Jr. year. I've known 10th graders that think a school isn't interested in them because they've sent messages, emails, etc. and the schools won't reply. THEY AREN'T ALLOWED. The only thing they can do is send info for their camps. That's about it. The rules are weird. Fun story: When I first moved to Omaha to work at Creighton, they sent me at the end of Sept 2019 to go watch Jordy Bahl pitch here in town. Nebraska plays HS softball in the fall and the teams play a lot of tournaments, which is unusual from where I lived as a kid. Anyway, also at that game was Gasso, MN coach, North Carolina, Nebraska, Washington, etc. etc. I called our head coach after watching a single inning and said "This girl is not coming to Creighton!" But they held out hope because Bahl is very religious and has DEEP roots with her family, the hope was she'd wanna stay close to home. Anyway, that tournament was late Sept 2019, and soooo many young girls asked Patty Gasso if they could take a pic with her, and she had to say no. Not to be a jerk but, it would violate NCAA rules for her to take a picture with a kid at that time of year. So the kid stood about 5 feet in front of PG, and took a selfie with PG in the background (who looked and smiled for the pic) but that was the closest she could LEGALLY give that girl.

During the calendar year, there are limits as you suggested. 20 hrs. per week is the max their allowed to do. That 20 hours includes weights, team practice, individual workouts with coaches, team meetings, or anything softball related. After the fall season, right before Thanksgiving, that window drops to 8 hours per week from T-day thru the return from Christmas. Then it goes back to 20 hrs as they ramp up for the season. Kids return from Xmas about Jan 5th ish, the season starts 1 month later.

Now, this is only NCAA. If your kid wanted to play for an NAIA school, there are NO rules. No recruiting windows, no rules about coaches taking pictures, etc. I am allowed to go throw live BP to the local NAIA school but, would not be allowed to pitch to Creighton or Nebraska because they are NCAA.

Here's unsolicited advise: #1. Find out what she wants to do as a career. #2. Figure out how far from home she's willing to go. There's no point sending schedules and interest at the U of Hawaii if she doesn't wanna be that far from home. #3. check which schools in your area she's willing to be in that has the major she wants. #4. those are the programs your kid needs to send schedules and attend camps. Camps is where it's at. They can cost $100-200 but it's the loophole in the system. At a camp, the coaches are allowed to coach the kids, interact with the kids, and see the kids in a different way. If you roll up on Oklahoma right now, knock on the Gasso's door, she would only be allowed to say hello and thanks for stopping. There'd be no cup of coffee, selfies, or anything. But if you go to their camp, those things are allowed. And there's 2 types of camps: prospect camps and cash grabs. Do your homework on which schools do which kind of camps.

Finally, this is just a pet peeve of my own: she will no doubt end up on mailing lists that will "invite" her to a camp. Maybe even to Oklahoma, Texas, or Alabama or any big time program. PLEASE don't confuse that with her being invited by the coach to attend. Odds are your kid got the same letter that 2000 others did that same day. Those letters go out and then kids put the pics up on social media like "look at all the mail I got from these colleges!!!" Those aren't offers, they're camp invites. Most schools do the "cash grab" camps to identify the ones they want for the more "private" camps that aren't open to everyone. Every major school does them but they usually tell the kids not to post on social media because it's a grey area about the legality possibilities. Anyway, I have no doubt it's very exciting to get those letters in the mail from big name schools but, make sure your kid understand what those REALLY are. Then she should post them on social media like everyone else and be proud of her accomplishments.

 

[Vertigo]

I will answer as best and honest as I am able regarding the D3’s. I have a kid that plays in the NESCAC and another one who plays in the Centennial Conference. Almost all of the NESCACs (if not all) offer NO merit money. They are needs-based only, and no - athletes do not get any exceptions here despite what some folks might tell you.

The Centennial Conference is another academically-sound conference. Some schools are tougher to get into but I believe most offer very good merit awards if your child has a good GPA and good SAT/ACT scores.

As far as time commitment goes in D3, this can differ depending on the conference. The NESCAC only started doing fall practices with coaches 2 seasons ago. Since time with coaches is limited, teams are expected to do a lot on their own in the fall like captains’ practices, “voluntary” lifts, individual workouts (pitching, etc). DD’s team does not play another team in the fall - they only do intersquad scrimmages. My other kid’s team does a one day doubleheader in the fall against another D3 team, in addition to intersquad scrimmages. In season it is a busy time. Definitely less games than D1 but also within a shorter time frame. The NESCAC’s typically do DH on Sat/Sun with a mid-week DH as well. It is a lot of time on a bus.

The competition within each conference varies greatly! Both usually have at least 1-2 SB teams that make it to the NCAA tournament every year who don’t win their conference.

I have said this before but just within the past 3 seasons I have seen the NESCAC talent level increase each year. We are starting to see more and more players who could probably play at an Ivy or a lower-level mid-major playing in the conference now. It has been refreshing to see!

If you definitely are looking for merit money - give the Centennial Conference a good look. Good schools with great reputations.

ETA: At some D3’s (definitely at the 2 I mentioned above) you will foot at least part of the bill for their spring training trips, glove, cleats, bats, etc. They don’t typically tend to get a lot of free swag in these 2 conferences.

 

[clarity]

D2 - what are some higher academic schools (focus will be sciences)

I'm only aware of one high academic D2 school in the country

 

[tim_s]

both my DDs are at the same D3 (Simmons) - GNAC, won their conference two years in a row......I would say they are generally high middle D3, if one looks at the Masseys, that seems to be true

right now through their Oct 12 play date, I think they practice 4-5 times a week......there's lift or conditioning 4-5 mornings (don't quote me exactly).....post Oct 12, I think it will be 3-4 captains practices a week, plus life/conditioning......when they come back in january they will practice 5-6 days a week until FLA, post FLA they get Mondays off, practice Tue, DH W, practice th & fri, DH Sa & Su.....not sure how much lift goes on in-season?

it's pretty busy, they are pretty competitive in a normal year, should be better than last year's team, with the addition of a few freshman (DD included)

their conference varies.....there's 3-4 other schools I would list in their category, with year to year variance (JWU, St Joe's/Maine, Emmanuel, Lasell, Albertus Magnus have most recently been consistently top half of the conference......a few of the bottom schools are on the weaker side.......some conferences are a little deeper, some not as much

merit money (academic) was strong......both of mine have a net cost under $15k a year, both were top 5 in their class with a rigorous schedule.....i don't think all of the schools in their conference are as generous with merit money; DD1 had a friend go to Wheaton who ended up with similar merit $$, we have others we know at a school like Husson (good program, weak conference) who didn't find as much merit $$.......seems there's a lot of variance there, it pays to do research in this realm

my DDs identified their academic needs/desires first.....then found a fit coach/program wise.....they both knew they wanted a program where they could play but be pushed, they wanted competitive with perspective, and that's exactly what they found......both wanted a team that pushed them to be better, with a chance to compete and win, without totally consuming their life (one is pre-law, the other is eying an internship within the boston medical field down the road)

it really is about identifying want/need first, then finding schools that match......if you're looking in the D3 realm, you'll be able to find multiple schools that fill those needs

both girls question why they would want to go D2 or low D1..........DD2 especially could have been in any of those boats, and DD1 was getting a lot of interest from a D2 or 2........but they found the right mix of academic rigor with the right level program at D3......they have friends/aquaintances/teammates in other situations at D2s and low D1s, and none of them have had as much like with a match that meets all needs, academic/athletic/financial

 

[Sonerai]

These are great questions and I feel like everyone going through this process ends up asking then and searching for the answers. My DD's focus has been on high academic D3 school so she can focus more on academics. So my experience has been mostly limited to D3. She has recently "committed to the application process" to a school in the Centennial Conference. Although some of those schools may offer some merit, some don't and are need based aid only. My experience has been the higher they are ranked academically, the less chance you are to get merit money. There are some schools that give some good relief if they have siblings that are also in college. Part of my DD's decision factored in the travel time for games. As Vertigo mentioned NESCAC schools seemed to have a lot more travel. One school told us that many of their games involved a 7 hour bus ride.

The only D2 school my DD could find was Colorado School of Mines, which is a great Engineering school.

 

[4Martini]

I'm only aware of one high academic D2 school in the country

I think there may be some more hidden gems in there (although maybe not quite the selectivity most people are thinking). I have quite a few friends who went to University of Minnesota at Duluth that have done very well grad school and career wise. They all loved it.

University of Tampa is pretty selective.

Bentley also seems have quite a few successful grads I know.

ETA I have a 2028 - so am going over the lists too.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

In my real life, I meet with several hundred families of HS seniors every year. I present financial aid nights at multiple schools, and here's what experience has taught me. The vast majority of students, 75% or higher, go to schools within six hours of home. Take a map, put a geometry compass on it, and draw a circle at about six hours away from home. You're sure to find plenty of colleges in the area that fit your needs.

Now not everyone will fit that mold, but that is the what 25 years experience has taught me. And as other have said, true high academic D3 schools do not give merit money. How do you differentiate between a 104 weighted GPA and another 104 weighted GPA? You can't. If you want more academic money, you need to punch below your weight class or be the big fish in the little pond.

And a lot is going to change with the recent announcement that the NCAA is expanding the number of scholarships available at D1 schools.

 

[marriard]

I think there may be some more hidden gems in there (although maybe not quite the selectivity most people are thinking). I have quite a few friends who went to University of Minnesota at Duluth that have done very well grad school and career wise. They all loved it.

University of Tampa is pretty selective.

Bentley also seems have quite a few successful grads I know.

ETA I have a 2028 - so am going over the lists too.

Schools like Rollins and Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida are two just in Florida - more selective than U of Tampa

Not sure why some said D3 NESCAC school do heavy travel - they really don't. Most will do a spring break trip somewhere warm and then there really is no need (and no time) to go beyond the surrounding states. With NEWMAC and NESCAC close by and a few other schools with talent in the area, there is plenty of competition.

There is lots of good advice on this forum. It really depends on your DD's goals and requirements (and ability). My DD played for a NEWMAC school and had an absolute blast - lots of mid-D1 talent across the leagues. But it was a BIG time commitment even at this level - 20 hours most off-season weeks - 40+ during season (which is really compressed).

A friend of my DD played at a les serious D2 program. They practiced 2x a week and weights were optional. They didn't travel far... They also went 2 and something last year.

Worst D2 team I saw was out of Tennessee. They couldn't have beaten a 14U-B team. The best D2 team I saw probably would have had a good chance to win a mid-major conference title.

Experiences will VASTLY differ. Up to you to go find out.