Leaping? Or replanting?

[ArmWhip]

Does anyone know if you can post an iCloud video link safely on a website like this?

 

[Bernie]

I would think it's actually easier to see a crow hop. If her foot turns sideways when she's releasing the ball, you have a 90% probability of a crow hop. IF her toes point downward, you have zero % chance.

Much easier to see a crowhop
than a leap.


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[tomorrow]

I'm a Rick Pauly disciple & I have 11 students that I would consider my top half (ages 14U-18U) and we expect 85% from "K" position. That doesn't mean no footwork, but it no drive. It's also not a full circle.

Here are the #'s:
1. 87%
2. 92.6%
3. 92.6%
4. 88.7%
5. 88%
6. 91.3%
7. 84.6%
8. 87.5%
9. 89.6%
10. 90.6%
11. 86.5%

I use a smart coach on a tripod so it's in whole MPH (not decimal) so there's probably a 2% margin of error on average. We do a progressive warm-up and these benchmarks help us gauge effort, discover injury/soreness, and where inefficiencies begin since as we progress back more elements to the pitching motion are added. When the speeds don't make sense we look for the breakdowns in mechanics. If the speeds make sense then we know we can add strength, etc. while trusting the mechanics.

Jeffrey when looking at these 11 students can you determine which are the faster pitchers based on these Percentages? Have you done this same test with lighter softballs and compared the results? From the eye test can you tell determine which has a better push-off or if they just have a better FSR? Do differences in arm bend angle at 9'oclock vary this percentage?

 

[Jeffrey]

Jeffrey when looking at these 11 students can you determine which are the faster pitchers based on these Percentages? Have you done this same test with lighter softballs and compared the results? From the eye test can you tell determine which has a better push-off or if they just have a better FSR? Do differences in arm bend angle at 9'oclock vary this percentage?

That's a bit of a deeper dive than I did. I can tell you the fastest kid here is #1 but she's also the oldest, strongest and most experienced. They are all very different! Sorry; nothing from this list stands out to me as useful for anyone other than that pitcher. We don't throw K with light balls, but they do all have light ball benchmarks:

K
1. 87%
2. 92.6%
3. 92.6%
4. 88.7%
5. 88%
6. 91.3%
7. 84.6%
8. 87.5%
9. 89.6%
10. 90.6%
11. 86.5%

Lite:
1. 108%
2. 109.3%
3. 111%
4. 105.7%
5. 108%
6. 113%
7. 111.5%
8. 120.8%
9. 110.4%
10. 107.6%
11. 103.9%

 

[Chilixa]

That's a bit of a deeper dive than I did. I can tell you the fastest kid here is #1 but she's also the oldest, strongest and most experienced. They are all very different! Sorry; nothing from this list stands out to me as useful for anyone other than that pitcher. We don't throw K with light balls, but they do all have light ball benchmarks:

K
1. 87%
2. 92.6%
3. 92.6%
4. 88.7%
5. 88%
6. 91.3%
7. 84.6%
8. 87.5%
9. 89.6%
10. 90.6%
11. 86.5%

Lite:
1. 108%
2. 109.3%
3. 111%
4. 105.7%
5. 108%
6. 113%
7. 111.5%
8. 120.8%
9. 110.4%
10. 107.6%
11. 103.9%

Number 8’s numbers jump way up compared to everyone else with the light ball. Be fascinating to try and figure out why. Numbers like this can be fun to play with and can help identify things when numbers stick out. Makes you wonder if she could pick up some velocity soon with a normal ball if she makes an adjustment.


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[tomorrow]

That's a bit of a deeper dive than I did. I can tell you the fastest kid here is #1 but she's also the oldest, strongest and most experienced. They are all very different! Sorry; nothing from this list stands out to me as useful for anyone other than that pitcher. We don't throw K with light balls, but they do all have light ball benchmarks:

K
1. 87%
2. 92.6%
3. 92.6%
4. 88.7%
5. 88%
6. 91.3%
7. 84.6%
8. 87.5%
9. 89.6%
10. 90.6%
11. 86.5%

Lite:
1. 108%
2. 109.3%
3. 111%
4. 105.7%
5. 108%
6. 113%
7. 111.5%
8. 120.8%
9. 110.4%
10. 107.6%
11. 103.9%

Interesting, that # 7 and # 8 have the biggest change between K and lite.

Just for kicks, I subtracted the K and Lite to find the difference.

1. 21%
2. 16.7%
3. 18.4%
4. 17%
5. 20%
6. 21.7%
7. 26.7%
8. 33.3%
9. 20.8%
10. 17%
11. 17.4%

Is 7 and 8 similar in body type?
When looking at the lite numbers I always wonder if that is a good indicator for Arm Whip. Or is possible it to tell if muscles themselves are the limiting factor? if a big change = muscles are the limiting factor
Just guessing no facts

 

[Tazman]

I'd love to put that theory to the test. Maybe the next time I break out the Pocket Radar, I'll see if that coincides with what you're saying. I also wonder if the same would hold true for an overhand throw. Personally, I think 85% is too high, but the good thing is it can be tested to see.

One other theory and too bad the resident curmudgeon isn't here to opine: Usually gains in speed require exponential gains in mechanics at the limit. It may be then that 85% of speed comes from the arm up to 58mph but 50% (for example) of the gain in speed from 58 to 65 comes from the legs. You also can't totally separate as there is some leg drive even without a step in the weight shift at a stationary position and leg drive plus arm speed and FSR feed through to whip....to be really provocative there has to be some speed equation that is roughly (arm speed * coefficient + leg drive * coefficient)*FSR multiplier +/- other factors equals speed. I'd welcome any mathematically minded improvement on that crude formula.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

One other theory and too bad the resident curmudgeon isn't here to opine: Usually gains in speed require exponential gains in mechanics at the limit. It may be then that 85% of speed comes from the arm up to 58mph but 50% (for example) of the gain in speed from 58 to 65 comes from the legs. You also can't totally separate as there is some leg drive even without a step in the weight shift at a stationary position and leg drive plus arm speed and FSR feed through to whip....to be really provocative there has to be some speed equation that is roughly (arm speed * coefficient + leg drive * coefficient)*FSR multiplier +/- other factors equals speed. I'd welcome any mathematically minded improvement on that crude formula.

Oddly enough, he gave me the formula a little while ago. We keep in contact all the time. Let's just say he keeps tabs on the goings on of DFP...

 

[Tazman]

Oddly enough, he gave me the formula a little while ago. We keep in contact all the time. Let's just say he keeps tabs on the goings on of DFP...

Do share! I'd be curious to see that formula.

 

[LEsoftballdad]

Do share! I'd be curious to see that formula.

From Mr. P.

You ever try running at 10+ on the treadmill? That's pretty fast, right? You think pitchers move forward faster than that? I'm guessing no. Speed of the ball out of hand is that speed plus the rotational component...

Sequencing of the forward move with the upper half matters of course and a stride might improve stretch and hence rotational velocity of the arm but it won't be that much. When a kid does a walk through do they usually move at a similar speed as they would normally? Maybe 1 mph faster? If they gain more than that on a walk through then the rest is due to improved sequencing and hence resistance. So the difference is due to a) faster forward speed and b) better sequencing/resistance improving arm speed.

Again pitch velocity is forward movement velocity + arm velocity. Like if you were on the ground and measured the horizontal speed of a ball dropped down by a person on a moving train you would measure the train velocity. Pitchers are probably moving forward 5-7 mph at most. Add another couple mph for improved resistance and hence arm speed because of the forward motion and you get a 6-10 mph difference between pitching from K position and pitching with a stride. So, would it be 85%? It would depend on how fast the kid is throwing. If she is throwing 60 then on the lower end of the "help" from the stride ((60-6)/60)*100=90% and on the upper end ((60-10)/60)*100=83%.

The only real question is how much added resistance do you get from striding. The forward motion speed is probably capped at around 7 mph..I cannot see anybody moving forward faster than that. And to Bill's question of why, I think the point was to determine the impact of leaping outside of just being closer. That said I doubt allowing it is going to improve forward velocity much and/or resistance (and hence arm circle speed).

And last but not least... I think people just see math and skip the post.