Drop/Rise Posture

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Apr 12, 2015
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Telling/asking a pitcher to consciously adjust their posture for a drop and/or rise is a recipe for disaster. Much like telling a pitcher to step to the left or right of the power line to throw inside/outside.
 
Jan 28, 2017
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Some teach body lean, some shoulder tilt, and some hip level. All three can be interpreted differently and IMO that’s where it starts to fall apart for some.
 
Apr 17, 2019
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Telling/asking a pitcher to consciously adjust their posture for a drop and/or rise is a recipe for disaster. Much like telling a pitcher to step to the left or right of the power line to throw inside/outside.

Are you saying it's not a teach/conscious effort? I agree in most cases. It's not a cue I avoid though. The old-school 'come over top for the drop' cue results in a ton of power loss for most kids. 'Tilt back' may result in similar because they won't close as hard. But every player has different cues that work for them, maybe it's the cue that finally connects with that particular player. (Like in hitting - I'm never going to blanketly tell kids to 'swing down' on the ball as most will turn that into a chop down across the plate. But I have said it a time or two to kids who needed that cue to correct a draggy, loopy swing.)

Since OP was asking about actively encouraging changes in posture - imo, maybe not for every kid, but finding the right cue that works for a player is the magic of a good coach. If it works for your player as long as it's not introducing some other flaw (check pickability too to Rad's point), I'd be fine running with it.
 
May 15, 2008
1,913
113
Cape Cod Mass.
Telling/asking a pitcher to consciously adjust their posture for a drop and/or rise is a recipe for disaster. Much like telling a pitcher to step to the left or right of the power line to throw inside/outside.
This is what I was angling for in my last post. I believe that the intention determines how the body moves. If a pitcher is trying to throw a low fastball something has to happen to achieve that goal, an earlier release, a little forward tilt, who knows. Telling a pitcher to release the ball earlier or tilt forward when she is trying to throw a low fastball is a big problem. Then add in a high fastball, a low rise, a high rise, a low curve, a drop, a different body posture for every pitch and it becomes overwhelming. But this is dealing with location and we are talking about vertical dimension spin pitches. Does leaning forward put more top spin on a pitch, or leaning backwards more backspin?
 
Aug 21, 2008
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For those with students or kids who can spin it up and down, what do you think about actively encouraging posture changes on the drop and rise? I feel like the step-right, throw-left approach (and vice-versa) for the horizontal moving pitches gets a bad rap, especially on this forum. But what about a little forward tilt on the drop and backward tilt on the rise? Is it essential? OK either way (ie, just do what works)? Or should any sort of variation be discouraged, on the theory that mechanics should stay as constant as possible from pitch to pitch?

It seems to help my kid, but it also makes for more inconsistency.


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Usually, when a coach teaches a pitcher to lean back or tilt forward (rise and drop) what they are essentially trying to advocate is how those positions (tilt and lean) change the release points. That's it. Pitchers do not have to change body positions to adjust the release point. The release point is worked on through repetition and practice.

Why coaches feel they need to complicate pitching is beyond me. Truly. Pitching isn't easy, it takes a long time to be good, even better to be great. One of the keys to that success is consistency. How can a pitcher be consistent when they constantly change body angles, steps left/right, and follow throughs for different pitches. Learning how to pitch ONE way takes a lifetime. Having 4 different deliveries for 4 different pitchers is mind boggling to me. Never mind how much a pitcher can (and often does) give away their pitch by how the step or lean, that's a whole separate problem. But nobody can get into a rhythm doing this. Moreover, you never see the best pitchers in the world doing it either.

I realize the initial post was about a lean/tilt but, theres a huge population out there that teaches what I described, 4 deliveries for 4 pitches. "Deliveries" can be push off, lean/tilt, step direction, follow through and things of that nature. But imagine you're the parent of a baseball pitcher and you take your kid to a baseball pitching coach and he begins by saying: "You'll throw your fastball like this, then on your curve you're going to step way over your power line and have a different pitching mechanic...." I'm guessing you wouldn't return for lesson #2. But in softball, far too many people nod and agree with this coach and following this logic. To me, it doesn't make sense.
 
Jan 25, 2022
880
93
Usually, when a coach teaches a pitcher to lean back or tilt forward (rise and drop) what they are essentially trying to advocate is how those positions (tilt and lean) change the release points. That's it. Pitchers do not have to change body positions to adjust the release point. The release point is worked on through repetition and practice.

Why coaches feel they need to complicate pitching is beyond me. Truly. Pitching isn't easy, it takes a long time to be good, even better to be great. One of the keys to that success is consistency. How can a pitcher be consistent when they constantly change body angles, steps left/right, and follow throughs for different pitches. Learning how to pitch ONE way takes a lifetime. Having 4 different deliveries for 4 different pitchers is mind boggling to me. Never mind how much a pitcher can (and often does) give away their pitch by how the step or lean, that's a whole separate problem. But nobody can get into a rhythm doing this. Moreover, you never see the best pitchers in the world doing it either.

I realize the initial post was about a lean/tilt but, theres a huge population out there that teaches what I described, 4 deliveries for 4 pitches. "Deliveries" can be push off, lean/tilt, step direction, follow through and things of that nature. But imagine you're the parent of a baseball pitcher and you take your kid to a baseball pitching coach and he begins by saying: "You'll throw your fastball like this, then on your curve you're going to step way over your power line and have a different pitching mechanic...." I'm guessing you wouldn't return for lesson #2. But in softball, far too many people nod and agree with this coach and following this logic. To me, it doesn't make sense.
My daughter's coach teaches this way, with basically the opposite opinion that the arm gets to throw the exact same pitch no matter what the angle. It's a logical approach to me, but changing the release to allow the BODY to be exactly the same every time also makes sense to me, so i'm not really arguing for one vs the other.

He (former US national team) teaches them to "step around the glove," (presuming the glove is in position for a spot), which looks to me to be lining the body up just to the side of it so the arm would be pointing right at it. She's a year and a half into it, so maybe he moves the advanced girls on to a different method later. I really don't know. I do see things here and there that are different for the girls capable of spots and spins.

I will say I've had the same thoughts about that method giving away the pitch, but when I catch for her and she's stepping differently for inside/outside, it's really very subtle. I don't think I would even notice it as a hitter. Especially not if I was trying to watch the windup/throw.

Anyway...I'm quite certain you've seen a lot more of it than I have so I'm not arguing for or against that method. Just sharing my observation.
 
Last edited:
Jan 6, 2009
6,590
113
Chehalis, Wa
You just need to create lift, defy gravity.



On a serious note. Michele Smith was once a riseball pitcher. She just threw it low to high, her posture and low release was because she was a riseball pitcher.

She reinvented herself into a drop and curve pitcher.
 
Jul 22, 2015
851
93
For those with students or kids who can spin it up and down, what do you think about actively encouraging posture changes on the drop and rise? I feel like the step-right, throw-left approach (and vice-versa) for the horizontal moving pitches gets a bad rap, especially on this forum. But what about a little forward tilt on the drop and backward tilt on the rise? Is it essential? OK either way (ie, just do what works)? Or should any sort of variation be discouraged, on the theory that mechanics should stay as constant as possible from pitch to pitch?

It seems to help my kid, but it also makes for more inconsistency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You will hear opinions all over the place on this issue and everyone is POSITIVE they are correct. Far more often than not, coaches teach some type of adjustment or mindset change for both pitches. Regardless the pitch, there should be very little difference in landing spot, posture, etc. But, some subtle changes can help. I always told my pitchers to imagine throwing downhill for a drop ball and uphill for a rise. I even used a portable baseball pitcher's mound to show them what I meant sometimes. I think it is more about their mindset and maybe a slight change in hip position than a significant posture change though.
 
IMO, there are two postures a pitcher should be concerned about. First is the landing posture which I would suggest should be about 8 degrees of spine tilt behind vertical. I don't think there is any value in multiple landing postures. It should be the same for every pitch. The second posture a pitcher should be concerned about is at time of ball release. So, for simplicity sake, if throwing a high pitch/riseball the pitcher should attempt to hold the original landing posture....rarely can they do this because of the forward energy the drive has created. So for the high pitch/rise they may end up at about 5-6 degrees of back tilt. For a low/dropball the pitcher lands with the exact same 8 degree tilt, but "allows" the forward energy to take them to a posture nearer vertical....but not past vertical. The angular degree of tilt at time of ball release merely changes the height of the release point....not the early/late timing of the release. The height of the release point is a key controller in how much upward release angle is required. IMO, release angle is one of the most important criteria for efficient ball movement through the hitting zone.
 

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