barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[_MIA_]

Get a fresh cup of coffee julray, another long story to follow....

So you've mentioned on several occasions that you're not a coach or hitting instructor, and there's nothing wrong with that, but unfortunately it limits your data base from which to base your opinions of what others are doing "deliberately" or not. Let me try to explain...

We all started with the exact same limited numbers of students that we based our knowledge of hitting off of. When I first got into teaching the swing, it was largely based on what I learned from Dave Hudgens through a seven cassette VCR/VHS course (yes, VCR/VHS...lol), and taught that to my oldest son (now 30) with great success. Fortunately for him, Dave's instruction fit perfectly into his proprioception of swinging a bat, but unfortunately for myself, it made me think I know everything about teaching hitting...when in fact, as I would later - unceremoniously - learn at another hitting forum, that was not at all the case.

That's when the real lessons started, and my interpretations of what the "pros" were saying and doing (Hudgens included) could not just be accepted out of hand verbatim, and more critical thinking and comparing what they were saying/doing in their teaching to what they actually did in their competitive swings needed to be applied.

For the record, Hudgens taught swing "down to" the ball, pounding it into the ground just out in front of the plate (still did when he was with the Astros I believe I heard), but that was one of the things that we (son and I) removed from the lessons early on because it didn't jive with the other things Dave taught (posture, stride, weight distribution...), was deleterious to his overall swing and ball flight, and mainly...because it didn't match up to the barrel paths we say when looking at video of MLB players at the time.

My son was a big Albert Pujols fan back in the day, when Albert used to hold his hands high, and lay his bat back oddly, and my son emulated that with some minor changes to make it work for him....
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....then copied Albert's game barrel path, and had great success with it.

Did I teach that stance to other hitters? No, but to land this airplane, we've watched/studied AP for a long time, and have seen the changes he's made throughout his career, so when a couple of years ago he got on television, and demoed "that" swing path, I called over my then adult son to take a look, and he just laughed, and said, "Right. Like that's at all how he swings it in a game...hahahaha!"

So it's not like we're I'm "deliberately misinterpret[ing]" what Albert is saying/showing, it's just that we have a long history of watching what he's done and is doing, and no matter what position he's ever going to try to move or stride into...there's no way he actually does what he demos in "that" swing path demo.

Sure, he might "feel" like he's doing that, but I "feel" like I'm Superman....that doesn't make me "Superman". Or wait, does it? ?

So, to summarize, you are old, don't know everything and are not to be confused with Superman? That about right?

 

[Mudders Brudder]

So, to summarize, you are old, don't know everything and are not to be confused with Superman? That about right?

You forgot "wordy", but yes...that's about it.

Oh, and an "asso"....don't forget "asso"!! ?

 

[Eric F]

So, to summarize, you are old, don't know everything and are not to be confused with Superman? That about right?

Having met Mr. Mud in person, I can neither confirm, nor deny, that he is, indeed, Superman.

 

[fanboi22]

Don't mean to sound like a complete jacka$$, I have issues with that sometimes . But why should you have a problem with the Pujois demo because instructors misinterpret and don't understand. They should know better. This is where I agree about the Hanson principle .. something here doesn't add up. Doesn't mean I should disregard and look for another solution.. try to understand what the best in game are saying. Even as a parent I would pick up a bat, tape myself and see if it makes sense before teaching to my kid. Instructors need to understand and make sure the kid understands. Nothing wrong with isolating certain movements in drills, but the kid has to understand that's part of the bigger process.. that's on the instructor, not a pro isolating a technical part of the swing.

I've had it done to my DD.. coach gets an instructor to come in to practice, she preaches knob to the ball with no posture ABAF sequence.. after practice I say to my DD.. I don't think so.

It's so funny when parents spend weeks researching a new bat and then just hand their DD off to the first instructor they find on the web.. None of this is directed at you FB.. just saying in general

I understand, not a jack hole at all. I dont have a problem with Pujols at all.........Now. but when you are just learning and trying to figure it out, it's hard to know what and how to listen. As a dad trying to help DD, i am looking for the easy way out. I was able to help DD pitch with limited control (haha) and pushing 60 mph with decent form. I couldn't and can't do it. I understand the motions and position and we video every throw and see what happened. Hitting isn't that way.

Hansen principal is fine however, when you have all of these forums with people saying they see one thing and others seeing something else, what does the Hansen princ do? People really see what they want to see. If i could tell what i am looking at great, but i couldn't which is why i rely on experts to tell me.

I have tried and will continue to try myself, because if i cant feel or understand, i wont know how to relay it to DD.

Oh... and don't get me started on bats. I have gone from the 80's 36oz solid aluminum BomBat thru the first double wall Demarini's to triple walls with springs inside to the ultimat DeMar RD28 to you name it. Except over the last few years it has been all DD getting the new toys. HAHA. @CoreSoftball is on speed dial.


At the end of the day, i just have to realize that i need to watch read and try to learn as much as possible and try and see what works for DD and stop looking for that magic pill. Thanks.

 

[fanboi22]

Thanks for the kind words. My DD still works with Mike, or did, until "lockdown". We are getting together with him this weekend...at a safe distance.

A pulling rear leg is where the upper rear leg is pulling the rear hip, not pushing it from behind.

One of the things I've noticed in Maddie's video is that her barrel at contact is more in a parallel line with her shoulders (looking from above) now than it was when she was more shoulder rotation dominant. I used to see her shoulders rotated beyond the line of the barrel. This rotation was pulling her hands laterally. They didn't have a choice but to move in that direction. As we got her more aggressive with TTB, there as a period where she was ripping everything foul. Her barrel was getting more parallel with her shoulder line, but her shoulders were still rotating too far/early. Once we got her shoulder rotation controlled, her flight path became much more centered. In BP her best hits have been to dead center.

Excellent thanks. I just read this to her before she heads outside to take some swings. I am working so not able to watch at this point, but will get some feedback on things. thanks.

 

[clemenslee1]

I understand, not a jack hole at all. I dont have a problem with Pujols at all.........Now. but when you are just learning and trying to figure it out, it's hard to know what and how to listen. As a dad trying to help DD, i am looking for the easy way out. I was able to help DD pitch with limited control (haha) and pushing 60 mph with decent form. I couldn't and can't do it. I understand the motions and position and we video every throw and see what happened. Hitting isn't that way.

Hansen principal is fine however, when you have all of these forums with people saying they see one thing and others seeing something else, what does the Hansen princ do? People really see what they want to see. If i could tell what i am looking at great, but i couldn't which is why i rely on experts to tell me.

I have tried and will continue to try myself, because if i cant feel or understand, i wont know how to relay it to DD.

Oh... and don't get me started on bats. I have gone from the 80's 36oz solid aluminum BomBat thru the first double wall Demarini's to triple walls with springs inside to the ultimat DeMar RD28 to you name it. Except over the last few years it has been all DD getting the new toys. HAHA. @CoreSoftball is on speed dial.


At the end of the day, i just have to realize that i need to watch read and try to learn as much as possible and try and see what works for DD and stop looking for that magic pill. Thanks.

The best decision I have made so far as a Dad trying to teach his DD, is to pick a method that you think would best fit your DD's attributes in her swing and stick to it. Don't try and blend it with anything else. Go all out. Some may disagree, just my .02 on what has worked for me and my DD so far.

 

[fanboi22]

The best decision I have made so far, is to pick a method that you think would best fit your DD's attributes in her swing and stick to it. Don't try and blend it with anything else. Go all out. Some may disagree, just my .02 on what has worked for me and my DD so far.

Thanks Clem, i can't get past the thought though that i truly think the right way is a blend of all of this. i have gone full circle a couple times and continue to pick up additional nuggets each time. My 4th or 5th time around i may be there. ha

 

[clemenslee1]

Thanks Clem, i can't get past the thought though that i truly think the right way is a blend of all of this. i have gone full circle a couple times and continue to pick up additional nuggets each time. My 4th or 5th time around i may be there. ha

I get it, its easy to see why it could be a blend of all of this. IMO, thats because the 2 main methads being discussed (1 legged TTB etc., 2 legged ,Down to etc.) are not as far apart and opposed as made out to be. Are there differences, of course? I have noticed since choosing the method I think is the best fit, is quite similar in many ways,

 

[FP26]

The best decision I have made so far, is to pick a method that you think would best fit your DD's attributes in her swing and stick to it. Don't try and blend it with anything else. Go all out. Some may disagree, just my .02 on what has worked for me and my DD so far.

It's not hard to see that there is a lot of disagreement in how the members here think pros swing. Heck, there are over 3000 posts in this thread alone... What you will notice if you watch long enough is that most of the people in this forum are looking for many of the same key aspects. Yes, we use different terminology. And, yes, we may prescribe different ways to accomplish those aspects. But in most cases those aspects are nearly all the same. All you have to do is look at the hitter's that we ALL gravitate towards; Bonds, Pujols, Trout, etc. etc. I don't remember any of the posters in this thread claiming any of these players suck. There's a reason for that...

Examples:

• None of us want to transfer too much weight to the front leg before it is necessary. Each poster can define the bolded words on their own...
• All of us want to square up the ball as often as possible.
• All of us want to create a timing window that allows us to hit fastballs and adjust to off speed.
• All of us believe that the barrel initially travels down in an arc that flattens out at some point to meet up with the ball. Not too steep in either direction...

If you can accomplish these things with your hitters., you don't need help from anyone in this forum.

 

[_MIA_]

Manny supposedly taught himself to hit by doing self-toss ?‍