barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Rolling Hard]

Wish I was better at fungo. I am not horrible but need work. It is a joy to watch a coach (like Tony Medina) hit fungo. Can place the ball anywhere. Infield and outfield.

 

[julray]

Get a fresh cup of coffee julray, another long story to follow....

So you've mentioned on several occasions that you're not a coach or hitting instructor, and there's nothing wrong with that, but unfortunately it limits your data base from which to base your opinions of what others are doing "deliberately" or not. Let me try to explain...

We all started with the exact same limited numbers of students that we based our knowledge of hitting off of. When I first got into teaching the swing, it was largely based on what I learned from Dave Hudgens through a seven cassette VCR/VHS course (yes, VCR/VHS...lol), and taught that to my oldest son (now 30) with great success. Fortunately for him, Dave's instruction fit perfectly into his proprioception of swinging a bat, but unfortunately for myself, it made me think I know everything about teaching hitting...when in fact, as I would later - unceremoniously - learn at another hitting forum, that was not at all the case.

That's when the real lessons started, and my interpretations of what the "pros" were saying and doing (Hudgens included) could not just be accepted out of hand verbatim, and more critical thinking and comparing what they were saying/doing in their teaching to what they actually did in their competitive swings needed to be applied.

For the record, Hudgens taught swing "down to" the ball, pounding it into the ground just out in front of the plate (still did when he was with the Astros I believe I heard), but that was one of the things that we (son and I) removed from the lessons early on because it didn't jive with the other things Dave taught (posture, stride, weight distribution...), was deleterious to his overall swing and ball flight, and mainly...because it didn't match up to the barrel paths we say when looking at video of MLB players at the time. So IOWs..."Been there, done that".

My son was a big Albert Pujols fan back in the day, when Albert used to hold his hands high, and lay his bat back oddly, and my son emulated that with some minor changes to make it work for him....
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....then copied Albert's game barrel path, and had great success with it.

Did I teach that stance to other hitters? No, but to land this airplane, we've watched/studied AP for a long time, and have seen the changes he's made throughout his career, so when a couple of years ago he got on television, and demoed "that" swing path, I called over my then adult son to take a look, and he just laughed, and said, "Right. Like that's at all how he swings it in a game...hahahaha!"

So it's not like we're I'm "deliberately misinterpret[ing]" what Albert is saying/showing, it's just that we have a long history of watching what he's done and is doing, and no matter what position he's ever going to try to move or stride into...there's no way he actually does what he demos in "that" swing path demo.

Sure, he might "feel" like he's doing that, but I "feel" like I'm Superman....that doesn't make me "Superman". Or wait, does it? ?

Just because you are an instructor doesn't mean you have greater database to base your opinion on when comes to watching a MLB pro swing a bat..lol. I have been involved in the game for a very long time and I know instructors who don't know crap, I also very good instructors as well. Most of the good ones don't assume things, including an individuals knowledge of the game.. just sayin

A lot of people see the Pujois(Not just AP, Yelich, AROD, Trout, Cruz etc ....) demo down to and say .. huh it makes no sense. I get it, looks odd, I had the same reaction. However they are not seeing the big picture.. it's an isolated movement. Again show me any of these top guys standing in the box just moving their hands. The entire swing looks different, obviously ?‍

 

[Buttermaker]

Yes, and as a reminder, "Muscles pull, they don't push", and corresponding that with the "Stretch/Shortening Cycle" (SSC).

One side/set of obliques are slowly contracted/shortened in order to stretch the opposite side/set that will then be contracted/shortened to assist in making the movement of rapidly launching/PPTing the hips...as part of launching/swinging the bat at the ball.

This is why you'll hear about hitters injuring one side/set of their obliques, and not the other...the rapid contraction side, and not the slow contraction side. If hitters just "relaxed" the front side contracted obliques in hopes that it would somehow "snap" back the stretched rear side obliques w/o ever having to suddenly contract said stretched side obliques...they'd never have an oblique injury that takes them out of the game for some time while they heal that we know happens on occasion.

I don't have a problem with muscles pull.

I am going to continue explaining the best I can so it makes sense. But, I know the goal is not just fire out of the lead side to the rear side. There is space in there that allows the sequence to unfold. Domino's...

 

[Eric F]

Wish I was better at fungo. I am not horrible but need work. It is a joy to watch a coach (like Tony Medina) hit fungo. Can place the ball anywhere. Infield and outfield.

Yep. Tony is really good. One of my DD's 14U coaches was like that, too.

 

[Buttermaker]

I am pretty good..only thing I have never mastered is hitting popups to the catcher...On a side note, one of the more cringeworthy things I see when I go to my DD's games is when I see coaches hitting fungoes with 1 hand...ARGGGH

Oh man those are fun! I feel like I am bending in half to get the ball to go straight up!

 

[Bonesaw]

Just because you are an instructor doesn't mean you have greater database to base your opinion on when comes to watching a MLB pro swing a bat..lol. I have been involved in the game for a very long time and I know instructors who don't know crap, I also very good instructors as well. Most of the good ones don't assume things, including an individuals knowledge of the game.. just sayin

A lot of people see the Pujois(Not just AP, Yelich, AROD, Trout, Cruz etc ....) demo down to and say .. huh it makes no sense. I get it, looks odd, I had the same reaction. However they are not seeing the big picture.. it's an isolated movement. Again show me any of these top guys standing in the box just moving their hands. The entire swing looks different, obviously ?‍

Yes. It reminds me of if you isolate the arm movement in the backswing of a golf swing.

What happens during a full swing can be an illusion. things are moving in a very complicated way and fast.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Just because you are an instructor doesn't mean you have greater database to base your opinion on when comes to watching a MLB pro swing a bat..lol. I have been involved in the game for a very long time and I know instructors who don't know crap, I also very good instructors as well. Most of the good ones don't assume things, including an individuals knowledge of the game.. just sayin

I didn't mean analyzing MLB swings, I meant actually working with multiple students so one has a much larger database of knowing what resonates with hitters of all ages and levels (10 year olds to MiLB hitters...and no, I don't take credit for any of them), when you tell them one thing vs another thing....regardless of if that thing comes from what some MLBer or some Internet "gurus" preaches .

 

[Mudders Brudder]

I don't have a problem with muscles pull.

I am going to continue explaining the best I can so it makes sense. But, I know the goal is not just fire out of the lead side to the rear side. There is space in there that allows the sequence to unfold. Domino's...

Yes, that's why I used the word "assist". It's not an all or nothing thing with any of the movements, and that's why I never bought someone's paper football finger flip thing as he thinks it's an example of how things are like some spring be stretched, and then suddenly "released". Body don't work that way.

 

[julray]

Yes. It reminds me of if you isolate the arm movement in the backswing of a golf swing.

What happens during a full swing can be an illusion. things are moving in a very complicated way and fast.

Don't know much about Golf.. picking it up this summer I think . But I do understand the analogy, same thing with most sports

 

[BigSkyHi]

Yes, that's why I used the word "assist". It's not an all or nothing thing with any of the movements, and that's why I never bought someone's paper football finger flip thing as he thinks it's an example of how things are like some spring be stretched, and then suddenly "released". Body don't work that way.

Anyone ever have their players inhale through the nose during load and exhaling when the swing starts (such as heel plant)?