barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Mudders Brudder]

Always a play on words with you and damn you're good at it

Not really TDS, it's just that I've coached all it for so long now, that I know how hitters think and respond, and what works and what doesn't.

Do you really think that if Bonds gave Christian the instruction to "Now swing "down it" the ball, and see what happens or how that feels", that Christian would get the same thing out of the drill, or make the same progressions that he did?

As I've stated many times over, I had many players come to me with the mindset or instruction of "knob/hands to the ball" w/o being given any subjective goals, other than "Nice, that was a good shot", or "Perfect" when the ball travels well, and "No, you're not getting the hands to the ball" when it's not struck well.

 

[FP26]

No but wish there was so You wouldn't be thinking some are blowing smoke up your a$$

What did you think he meant by folks thinking their on time but they're not. What about the if I was leaking I am not getting to that up and in pitch.

To be clear. I really have no issue with the "down to" thought process. But the barrel path they are using in live swings is not going to result in a bouncer off the front of home plate. At least not on purpose. We agree there is more to it than that. The pros seem to believe that the "down to" concept is extremely important, yet none of them seem to consider posture at all. Just seems odd... Even this swing by Yelich fits what I would describe as "behind and through". He may be thinking "down to", but he is performing "behind and through". I guess I just don't understand why they are both not valid descriptions...

 

[Mudders Brudder]

mudders...if you have videos posted all over Twitter then I will stop referencing TM all the time. However in this case I could of said Charlie Brown and it would not of made a lick of difference. My question is simple... again I ask when buddy on twitter dumps the barrel to isolate hands, do you think this is the barrel path he is aiming for? Nothing to be paranoid about here, yes or no answer will do just fine.

Nothing to be paranoid about, because your whole nonsensical post was out of the blue as some sort of response to me posting this to WW....

No, as a "feeling" (adjective), because that's all any hitters are talking about when talking hitting...what they "feel". Because if Albert, or Arod actual believe that the bat/barrel path they demo is their actual game path....they've never watched a single video of their swing, or if they have, the have no idea wth they're looking at.

Same with Christian, he actually said in the video if anyone was really listening that he knows he doesn't actually swing down in his game swings, but that's what the drill makes him "feel" he's doing.

...and your question wrt anything TM was feeling or doing had/has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

But to answer your above direct question - "when buddy on twitter dumps the barrel to isolate hands, do you think this is the barrel path he is aiming for?" - How the hell should I know, why don't you ask him if you're that interested. Now if you're asking me if that's the "barrel path he is I'd be aiming for"....then the answer is absolutely not.

Clear enough or simple enough for you to understand now?

 

[TDS]

Not really TDS, it's just that I've coached all it for so long now, that I know how hitters think and respond, and what works and what doesn't.

Do you really think that if Bonds gave Christian the instruction to "Now swing "down it" the ball, and see what happens or how that feels", that Christian would get the same thing out of the drill, or make the same progressions that he did?

As I've stated many times over, I had many players come to me with the mindset or instruction of "knob/hands to the ball" w/o being given any subjective goals, other than "Nice, that was a good shot", or "Perfect" when the ball travels well, and "No, you're not getting the hands to the ball" when it's not struck well.

I understand he did it without telling him.. He failed at hitting the front of the plate miserably.. Bonds then takes over Yelich was like .. For the first time Yelich owned and cleaned up his barrel path and could hit the ball into the plate 10 feet in front and then on a line..

Hands to the ball is that what you refer to as swinging down to ?

 

[TDS]

To be clear. I really have no issue with the "down to" thought process. But the barrel path they are using in live swings is not going to result in a bouncer off the front of home plate. At least not on purpose. We agree there is more to it than that. The pros seem to believe that the "down to" concept is extremely important, yet none of them seem to consider posture at all. Just seems odd... Even this swing by Yelich fits what I would describe as "behind and through". He may be thinking "down to", but he is performing "behind and through". I guess I just don't understand why they are both not valid descriptions...

Yes the barrel gets behind the ball but the path taken to back spin the ball is the control he had for the first time in his career. They are going up there with a mind set of hitting the top half of the ball not just getting behind and trying to lift it. IOW's they are trying to avoid looping the barrel behind and swinging up on the ball.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

I understand he did it without telling him.. He failed at hitting the front of the plate miserably.. Bonds then takes over Yelich was like .. For the first time Yelich owned and cleaned up his barrel path and could hit the ball into the plate 10 feet in front and then on a line..

Hands to the ball is that what you refer to as swinging down to ?

Thanks for that answer. I remember Yelich couldn't accomplish it at first, and it wasn't until he saw Barry do it by example that he know it was possible (objective), and he was then able to put the ball in the prescribed locations as well w/o additional instruction (but I might have misremembered that part).

To your question wrt "hands to the ball" being the same as swinging down to...no, not necessarily...simply an example of a vague, subjectively worded and common hitting cue.

My point is that it was far more difficult trying to teach a hitter a "feeling" vs simply teaching them a something they can see if they're doing correctly or not in video.

I suppose if I was a drama instructor then teaching someone to "feel" something so they can "act" that way might be beneficial, but as a hitting coach I'm more concerned about their actual movements, and mechanics than I am about how or what they "feel" while doing them.

 

[Shawn]

I forget what I wanted to say after reading everyone’s posts!

I started watching the 2018 playoffs and Yelich hit a high bouncer off the plate and got a base hit. The bouncer went to second. Made me laugh.

Oh I remember! I have heard pro’s say that the swing is violent. Your relaxed and then things get a little violent.

 

[Work=wins]

Yeah I agreed that bball and football require more pure athletic ability doesn't negate the fact that baseball at the MLB level requires more than what the average person has. Of course mechanics are important but at the highest level, including baseball, when "you lose a step" athletically it makes a difference. The more athleticism a sport requires the bigger the difference it makes.

Come on, he is a shell of his former self and there are countless other hitters that have shown the same regression. Why do you think Yaz lowered his hands in his stance as he got older? It was a compensation for him losing some explosiveness...

the last thing

Yeah I agreed that bball and football require more pure athletic ability doesn't negate the fact that baseball at the MLB level requires more than what the average person has. Of course mechanics are important but at the highest level, including baseball, when "you lose a step" athletically it makes a difference. The more athleticism a sport requires the bigger the difference it makes.

Come on, he is a shell of his former self and there are countless other hitters that have shown the same regression. Why do you think Yaz lowered his hands in his stance as he got older? It was a compensation for him losing some explosiveness...

So Albert is 40. Hit .250 25hrs 90 something RBIs. Productive? That’s the point. It’s more of a skill sport than an explosive sport.

 

[Work=wins]

I forget what I wanted to say after reading everyone’s posts!

I started watching the 2018 playoffs and Yelich hit a high bouncer off the plate and got a base hit. The bouncer went to second. Made me laugh.

Oh I remember! I have heard pro’s say that the swing is violent. Your relaxed and then things get a little violent.

Stop watching Dave kingman sound bites, ?

 

[Shawn]

Yes the barrel gets behind the ball but the path taken to back spin the ball is the control he had for the first time in his career. They are going up there with a mind set of hitting the top half of the ball not just getting behind and trying to lift it. IOW's they are trying to avoid looping the barrel behind and swinging up on the ball.

Their practicing a different hand and barrel path. They have the hands cutting and sliding forward. Hands are getting ahead of the body.

If you go back to the very first post of this thread, none of these actions are present in the swing. The hands stay back and the barrel is turned deep. There is no hands to the ball that you are showing.

BTW, Cruz has high hands and says he swings down and through the ball. Many with a high back elbow or hands have had that approach. Swinging down is not good advice for every player.