barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[clemenslee1]

‘you get on top of ball , Palm up and finish up.’ Nothing about getting on plane deep. He only speaks of the hands.

To me, the only reason they say "get on top" and other cues similar to that, is simply trying to not get loopy, because when physics come in to play the barrel is going to arc rear ward and drop below the hands. Pitch location is going to give more or less barrel turn.

 

[Work=wins]

It is part of it (which is why I said "not exactly") but in order to get the HL barrel path other things need to be accomplished with the rest of body which the pros are not talking about.

Edit: Here is the deal. The pros don't have to teach anybody so they leave stuff out and just describe what they feel is most important. I don't blame them, that isn't their job. The rest of us have to make sure that what we say/teach results in the barrel path/swing that we want. I hope everybody in this thread accomplishes that and we can all shut up about it

You are butter today P!!! You’re on a roll!! Another good post!

 

[TDS]

Mig talked about getting the bat on plane as quickly as possible when he did this demonstration. Do this move at full speed, with a wood bat, and you get the barrel turning rearward behind the shoulder and then arcing into the swing plane, transitioning from forearm axle to palm-up/palm-down. One of the problems with slo-mo demos is that the rotational forces of a heavy bat being swung at full speed change things dramatically.

Yea we all know the barrel gets turned but none of these guys are forcing the action.. The hands need to be free based on what the pitch calls for... None of them are supinating the rear forearm as an action.

 

[_MIA_]

You are butter today P!!! You’re on a roll!! Another good post!

My gym is closed..I don't get to eat butter or rolls until it opens back up else I end up like my boy Jaba...

 

[rdbass]

To me, the only reason they say "get on top" and other cues similar to that, is simply trying to not get loopy, because when physics come in to play the barrel is going to arc rear ward and drop below the hands. Pitch location is going to give more or less barrel turn.

Good post.....
I've posted this a couple of days ago ish.....told DD too keep her hands above the ball as long as possible.

 

[julray]

To me, the only reason they say "get on top" and other cues similar to that, is simply trying to not get loopy, because when physics come in to play the barrel is going to arc rear ward and drop below the hands. Pitch location is going to give more or less barrel turn.

Like I previously said the barrel turns every swing... The pros don't focus on TTB, the focus on down to, imitators focus on TTB because they believe that's what the pros are actively doing. The pros tell us, demonstrate, practice time and time again "down to". I agree with some others, TTB is a band-aid fix. I use to drink the blue kool-aid, not any longer. It's very obvious and easy to see what they do, just need to piece the isolated hand action with the rest of the recipe. Then what they are saying and doing makes a lot of sense.

 

[rdbass]

 

[clemenslee1]

Like I previously said the barrel turns every swing... The pros don't focus on TTB, the focus on down to, imitators focus on TTB because they believe that's what the pros are actively doing. The pros tell us, demonstrate, practice time and time again "down to". I agree with some others, TTB is a band-aid fix. I use to drink the blue kool-aid, not any longer. It's very obvious and easy to see what they do, just need to piece the isolated hand action with the rest of the recipe. Then what they are saying and doing makes a lot of sense.

That's great and more power to you! I really hope it works for you.

I will say what I have from the beginning, no problems with down to if that's what the say they are doing and feeling,but they do a piss poor job of showing how those things work in a entire swing context

 

[FP26]

The first time I saw these swings, the difference between hand path and barrel path became clear to me. The hands take a direct line. The barrel pivots around the hands.
View attachment 16769

As usual @Eric F is dropping down the knowledge Some people tend to focus on hand path. Others focus on barrel path. I can understand both points of view. Personally I think both are important and my focus with any particular hitter will be based on their comfort level. Ultimately it is the results that I am looking for. This is not a knock on @TDS, but one of his primary focuses is to keep the barrel inside the sagittal plane as long as possible (he can correct me if I am quoting him wrong). Assuming I am quoting him correctly, this is a point that him and I agree on. That said, I'm not about to talk to an 11 year old about the sagittal plane.

Thinking about it, I have never heard a pro talk about the sagittal plane, so I guess it really doesn't exist, right?

Added: One of the long time posters that I respect greatly is Mudvnine. Him and I have discussed hand path and barrel path at length. His focus is strictly barrel path (refers to it as "the money end"). I respect his opinion on this and many other hitting related topics but I continue to insist that hand path also plays an important role.

 

[julray]

That's great and more power to you! I really hope it works for you.

I will say what I have from the beginning, no problems with down to if that's what the say they are doing and feeling,but they do a piss poor job of showing how those things work in a entire swing context

It's working for the pros...

That's because it is taken out of context. They are not showing the entire swing. when you see Pujois standing there flat footed, with no leverage, no posture, not tilt etc and just moving his hands, do you believe he's displaying his full swing. It's an isolated movement. And that's where the deceiving movement of somebody displaying TTB while standing flat footed looks more natural. But that's entirely out of context.. thinking full swing when watching somebody TTB without all the other components is completely out context of the entire swing. That's where people get mislead