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Crow hopping

ceas04

Fastpitch Dad
Aug 29, 2018
2
3
Lynn, MA
My DD has only played club for a short time, but the only few times I've seen an crow-hop called was when the there was when the drive foot left the ground. Interesting video that I found when I was watching Gabbie Plain from Washington. DD's pitching coach has her keeping the glove and ball married longer in the windup, so I was looking for a current RHP that does this. Plain is one that does and I found this slow motion video of multiple pitches and you can clearly see a redrive before she slides. I've watch quite a few of her games and have not seen it called.

 
Aug 30, 2015
236
18
Very well said. Crow hopping can only occur after a legal drag.
That's confusing, riseball. I don't think it's true.

I'll post the definitions as I'm not sure they've ever been posted in one place so we all can see.

USA 2019 - The act of a pitcher who steps, hops or drags off the front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, thereby establishing a second impetus, or starting point, pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes the delivery.

NFHS 2019 - A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch.

NCAA 2018/19 - 10.4.6 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

 
Sep 5, 2012
36
6
Played a tournament this weekend and pitcher crow hopped every single pitch. Home plate ump called it once in the second inning and the very next pitch she went even higher. Was the most pointless call i've ever seen an ump make. Let alone it wasn't even his call to make. Base ump didn't say anything.
You are wrong on one point...….. All umpires have equal responsibility in call an IP if they see it. In some instances the PU may be blocked from seeing it & the BU may have a cleaner view but neither umpire has precedent in making the call.
 
Apr 20, 2018
686
28
SoCal
This is my solution:

Let them crow hop/ replant all they want. Just have to stay inside the circle. I believe this is how men's fastpitch rules work. It is stupid to have a rule that is difficult to enforce and when premier pitchers violate it every single pitch. The only logical answer is to change the rule.
 
Jul 15, 2015
57
8
Seems like you haven't read all my posts MTR.

I'll ask you: how would you handle a crow-dragger that isn't able to fix it during a game?

Keep calling IP until she has to leave the game?

not trying to be contentious, just a dad of a pitcher who is frustrated by seeing illegal pitchers get away with it. if a team keeps leaving the bases early should the umps continue to call it? of course they should. if it's a rule and they are breaking it, call them on it. if you aren't going to call it, then get rid of the rule.
 
Aug 30, 2015
236
18
This is my solution:

Let them crow hop/ replant all they want. Just have to stay inside the circle. I believe this is how men's fastpitch rules work. It is stupid to have a rule that is difficult to enforce and when premier pitchers violate it every single pitch. The only logical answer is to change the rule.
DING DING DING! WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,181
38
It sounds like you're not so convinced it's legal either using the words "most likely". According to most on this board, that motion is not legal, thus the discussion. Care to go on record whether you think the crow drag is legal or not?

You can not push from anywhere other than the plate. It's stated in both NFHS and USA. If you're referring to the USA-published explanation, I've already suggested it's very poor and doesn't help anything. If it is such a good clarification, I would think it would have been published in somebody's rule set or Supplemental by now.
That same clarification was also put out by nfhs back at the exact same time as the usa one. The nfhs one was released in response to a training video that was put out by the Florida high school association that had slow motion, freeze framed, arrows pointing to bent knees, toes bent etc saying these indicators made the pitch illegal. The nfhs clarification was issued to refute that video and say it was not the nfhs interpretation of the pitching rule. You may think the rule says what you are claiming but you are interpreting it incorrectly. Like it or not if the pitcher is dragging the pivot foot she is legal, you can spout the rule all you want but the clarification is how the rule is to be interpreted and applied.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
Feb 17, 2014
6,837
48
Orlando, FL
This is my solution:

Let them crow hop/ replant all they want. Just have to stay inside the circle. I believe this is how men's fastpitch rules work. It is stupid to have a rule that is difficult to enforce and when premier pitchers violate it every single pitch. The only logical answer is to change the rule.
Or you could learn to pitch with decent mechanics. While changing the rule may be expedient and seem logical, you are doing developing pitchers a big disservice. Leaping and crow hopping in the women's game are not by design but a symptom of poor mechanics. Back in the day had someone taught Barnhill how to pitch with proper mechanics and had she not been surrounded by enablers, her career would have been more impressive and sans a virtual asterisk, or she would have taken the easy route and played a different sport.
 
Sep 29, 2014
1,731
38
That same clarification was also put out by nfhs back at the exact same time as the usa one. The nfhs one was released in response to a training video that was put out by the Florida high school association that had slow motion, freeze framed, arrows pointing to bent knees, toes bent etc saying these indicators made the pitch illegal. The nfhs clarification was issued to refute that video and say it was not the nfhs interpretation of the pitching rule. You may think the rule says what you are claiming but you are interpreting it incorrectly. Like it or not if the pitcher is dragging the pivot foot she is legal, you can spout the rule all you want but the clarification is how the rule is to be interpreted and applied.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
So is this in fact the NCAA rule? NCAA 2018/19 - 10.4.6 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released

If the answer if yes then the only conclusion is that by the letter of this rule Barnhill is illegal 100% of the time. Now if the NCAA has got together and as a point of emphasis told all their umpires that this rule is only to be enforced if the drag foot leaves the ground and that as some have said as long as the foot does not lose contact with the ground this "illegal " pitch can not occur that is a completely diffferent thing.
 
Feb 17, 2014
6,837
48
Orlando, FL
That's confusing, riseball. I don't think it's true.

I'll post the definitions as I'm not sure they've ever been posted in one place so we all can see.

USA 2019 - The act of a pitcher who steps, hops or drags off the front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, thereby establishing a second impetus, or starting point, pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes the delivery.

NFHS 2019 - A crow hop is the replant of the pivot foot prior to delivering the pitch. The crow hop is an illegal pitch.

NCAA 2018/19 - 10.4.6 The pitcher is not allowed to hop or drag to a replant (crowhop), gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

What comes first, the leap or the crow hop? Once you leap it is an IP is it not? If you toe the rubber, bring your hands together, then separate and step back off the rubber is that not an IP? What if you start with only one foot on the rubber? How about a step back after you separate? Those are all IP's are they not? After you commit an IP how is a subsequent action relevant?
 

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