Crow hopping

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Jul 29, 2013
6,782
113
North Carolina
Because it isn't a big advantage. Teach your daughter to crow hop and join the party.
This! My DD's very first pitching instructor used to always tell us never to point it out or bring it to the attention of the umpires, cause the girls with the proper mechanics will always pitch better than the girl who's illegal, he said let them keep doing it wrong!
 
Apr 28, 2019
1,423
83
This is a fundamental problem. I would worry more about fixing the trench digging and less about others. A good drag is barely in contact with the ground and won't cost speed.
I would keep my stupid comments to myself. I’ll worry about whomever I please.
 
Aug 30, 2015
286
28
I would follow the rule book and call it accordingly. I would not create my own rulebook and enforce those rules. I would enforce the rules of the association's rulebook. That's what it is there for I believe.
Then I concede you are a bigger man than me! I'm assuming you're a man....

If you get the opportunity, I would pay airfare and expenses to watch that game where you would be single-handedly responsible for causing the crow-hopping pitcher to leave the game.

The first IP will likely get no repercussion. The 2nd in a row, you'll have the coach asking what you're calling. The 3rd in a row, you'll have the offending pitcher's crowd starting to grumble. The 4th in a row, you'll have the entire crowd starting to jaw. The 5th in a row, you'll have the coach in your face very upset and the pitcher will probably start breaking down in tears. The 6th, I guess the coach will have to remove the pitcher.

Of course, the scenario above is just guessing what would happen after the 2nd IP in a row because I've never gotten past that point!
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Still a whole lot of noise about a pitching motion that most likely is perfectly legal. If the pivot foot is dragging, nothing says the foot cannot push again and the clarification was already posted. If the pitcher is leaping out to the replant, no need to even discuss the replant, the leap is illegal and is what should be discussed with the umpire.
 
Mar 28, 2014
1,081
113
Then I concede you are a bigger man than me! I'm assuming you're a man....

If you get the opportunity, I would pay airfare and expenses to watch that game where you would be single-handedly responsible for causing the crow-hopping pitcher to leave the game.

The first IP will likely get no repercussion. The 2nd in a row, you'll have the coach asking what you're calling. The 3rd in a row, you'll have the offending pitcher's crowd starting to grumble. The 4th in a row, you'll have the entire crowd starting to jaw. The 5th in a row, you'll have the coach in your face very upset and the pitcher will probably start breaking down in tears. The 6th, I guess the coach will have to remove the pitcher.

Of course, the scenario above is just guessing what would happen after the 2nd IP in a row because I've never gotten past that point!
You would see it in the warmups so I would be proactive. I would approach the coach and pitcher before the first pitch and tell him/her that their pitcher is illegal and if it isn't corrected during the game, I'm going to call it by the book until they get legal. I don't see how any chirping from the coach or the crowd would deter me but I am not one to cave to the masses if I am simply enforcing written rules that everyone is aware of before the game starts. If they want to chirp too loudly then they can watch the rest of the game from the parking lot.

Now to be clear, I have been talking about this in terms of the 14u-18u Class A level. Maybe we are not comparing apples to apples. If you're talking about Rec league or C class ball or lower age divisions then I would not be as harsh but would still definitely call the egregious violations to serve as a teaching moment. You mentioned a girl crying so I'm assuming you're talking about lower age levels.
 
Mar 13, 2010
1,758
48
The vast VAST majority of videos I see of pitchers ‘crow hopping’ is not crow hopping. They’re usually leaping. True crow hopping is rare and when you see it you’ll know it because it’s really nothing you’ve ever seen before.

Personally I think leaping should be legal in America. It’s the only country where it’s noy (till they get to international play) and most importantly, it doesn’t get called regardless.

I’ve always been taught when baserunning if you’re not leaving early you’re leaving late. It doesn’t get called often but when it is toy adjust.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
IMO, the USA explanation is one big poor justification and excuse for not enforcing the crow hop rule. I have to give it to them, though. They got very creative in explaining it away. The video is even a bad example--that guy can't even "crow drag" as good as some of these girls do. When the hands separate is a lame indicator; we all know most of these girls swing back and their hands are separated long before they even start to stride forward.

Anyone who has ever pitched themselves knows that the "crow drag" is an advantage.

Both USA and NFHS have verbiage specifically prohibiting a pitcher pushing off from anywhere other than the pitcher's plate. The "crow drag" is a pitcher pushing off from somewhere other than the pitcher's plate.

Having said all that....I don't call it during a game. Why? A pitcher can't correct that delivery style without changing her mechanics and that just isn't going to happen during a game. It would be like asking the SS to switch and throw with the opposite hand.

If the pitcher actually goes airborne in the initial push off from the plate, then I will call an IP. But that's as far as I'm willing to take it. It can easily be corrected by continuing to drag the toe on the ground, but the re-plant and push won't go away.

At the end of the day, I think what we're collectively saying is we want to shut down the illegal pitchers but the only way to do that is to have the umpire call IP after IP after IP after IP until the pitcher has to leave the game.

I'm not sure that's ever happened in the history of the game and I'm not willing to be the first one to do it!

So you have decided to ignore the rule because it is inconvenient to require a pitcher to do it right?
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
The vast VAST majority of videos I see of pitchers ‘crow hopping’ is not crow hopping. They’re usually leaping. True crow hopping is rare and when you see it you’ll know it because it’s really nothing you’ve ever seen before...

Very well said. Crow hopping can only occur after a legal drag. Had a conversation with an SEC umpire who worked Gator games and even he did not understand this. He thought they were somehow mutually exclusive. Could not wrap his head around the fact that Barnhills crow hopping was moot as she, like most leaps to get into position to crow hop. The leap should be called as an IP and what happens after that is meaningless.
 
Aug 30, 2015
286
28
Still a whole lot of noise about a pitching motion that most likely is perfectly legal.
It sounds like you're not so convinced it's legal either using the words "most likely". According to most on this board, that motion is not legal, thus the discussion. Care to go on record whether you think the crow drag is legal or not?
If the pivot foot is dragging, nothing says the foot cannot push again and the clarification was already posted.
You can not push from anywhere other than the plate. It's stated in both NFHS and USA. If you're referring to the USA-published explanation, I've already suggested it's very poor and doesn't help anything. If it is such a good clarification, I would think it would have been published in somebody's rule set or Supplemental by now.
 
Aug 30, 2015
286
28
So you have decided to ignore the rule because it is inconvenient to require a pitcher to do it right?
Seems like you haven't read all my posts MTR.

I'll ask you: how would you handle a crow-dragger that isn't able to fix it during a game?

Keep calling IP until she has to leave the game?
 

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