Crow hopping

[GunnerShotgun]

if a team keeps leaving the bases early should the umps continue to call it? of course they should.

There is a clear advantage to leaving the base early. The earlier you leave the better faster you will get to the next base.

With illegal pitching, in my opinion, there is little if any advantage gained. Others claim you are getting more "X" miles per hour but I haven't seen that evidence with my radar gun or any research.

 

[riseball]

There is a clear advantage to leaving the base early. The earlier you leave the better faster you will get to the next base.

With illegal pitching, in my opinion, there is little if any advantage gained. Others claim you are getting more "X" miles per hour but I haven't seen that evidence with my radar gun or any research.

If you use an illegal courtesy runner that is slower than the player they are replacing is that ok? If a player uses an illegal bat and hits a weak ground ball does she get a pass because she did not realize an advantage? What about a foreign substance on the ball. If the pitcher does not get better movement and the ball leaves the yard does she get a pass? How about a team with an ineligible player. She is 20yo college player playing 18U but she only had 1 at bat and struck out. Do you just let it go? I am thinking that just because a rule does not serve to level the playing and prevent a competitive advantage does not make it any less of a rule. You can argue that a rule should be changed for whatever reason you want, but you cannot rationalize that it should not be enforced because you do not agree with it.

 

[WVSteven]

I agree @GunnerShotgun, there is not an increase in velocity. Most of the complaints I've seen are not added speed but a shorter distance. The shorter distance is very similar to increased speed because it equates to shorter reaction time.

 

[OK04dad]

There is a clear advantage to leaving the base early. The earlier you leave the better faster you will get to the next base.

With illegal pitching, in my opinion, there is little if any advantage gained. Others claim you are getting more "X" miles per hour but I haven't seen that evidence with my radar gun or any research.

There's an advantage if it's their number 1 pitcher doing it illegally and their #2 pitcher isn't as good (hence the #2 tag).

And if there's no advantage to pitching illegally, then pitch legally with everyone else.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

If you use an illegal courtesy runner that is slower than the player they are replacing is that ok? If a player uses an illegal bat and hits a weak ground ball does she get a pass because she did not realize an advantage? What about a foreign substance on the ball. If the pitcher does not get better movement and the ball leaves the yard does she get a pass? How about a team with an ineligible player. She is 20yo college player playing 18U but she only had 1 at bat and struck out. Do you just let it go? I am thinking that just because a rule does not serve to level the playing and prevent a competitive advantage does not make it any less of a rule. You can argue that a rule should be changed for whatever reason you want, but you cannot rationalize that it should not be enforced because you do not agree with it.

I am explaining the behavior not excusing it.

 

[4KidsDad]

That same clarification was also put out by nfhs back at the exact same time as the usa one. The nfhs one was released in response to a training video that was put out by the Florida high school association that had slow motion, freeze framed, arrows pointing to bent knees, toes bent etc saying these indicators made the pitch illegal. The nfhs clarification was issued to refute that video and say it was not the nfhs interpretation of the pitching rule.

So even the governing bodies can't agree. No wonder this is such a complicated issue.

You may think the rule says what you are claiming but you are interpreting it incorrectly.

That is your opinion to which you are entitled.

Like it or not if the pitcher is dragging the pivot foot she is legal,

Not if she replants and pushes off from somewhere other than the plate.

you can spout the rule all you want but the clarification is how the rule is to be interpreted and applied.

Again, your opinion.

You still haven't gone on record whether you think the crow drag is illegal....

 

[4KidsDad]

What comes first, the leap or the crow hop? Once you leap it is an IP is it not? If you toe the rubber, bring your hands together, then separate and step back off the rubber is that not an IP? What if you start with only one foot on the rubber? How about a step back after you separate? Those are all IP's are they not? After you commit an IP how is a subsequent action relevant?

I think we're missing each other...

I was responding to your comment earlier, "Crow hopping can only occur after a legal drag". Perhaps I misunderstood what you we're trying to say?

There doesn't have to be a legal drag for there to be a crow hop.

 

[riseball]

I think we're missing each other...

I was responding to your comment earlier, "Crow hopping can only occur after a legal drag". Perhaps I misunderstood what you we're trying to say?

There doesn't have to be a legal drag for there to be a crow hop.

My point is that everything prior to the crow hop must be legal in order for the crow hop to be called as an IP. In the absence of a legal drag the crow hop is moot. Consider Barnhill, I have yet to see her not leap and then crow hop. If she has already committed an IP by leaping the crow hop is moot.

 

[4KidsDad]

There is a clear advantage to leaving the base early. The earlier you leave the better faster you will get to the next base.

With illegal pitching, in my opinion, there is little if any advantage gained. Others claim you are getting more "X" miles per hour but I haven't seen that evidence with my radar gun or any research.

There is a huge advantage; it's the way the girl pitches!

Require her to change it and something will be affected-movement, control, velocity or all three. Not to mention probably her mental and emotional confidence will be shaken.

 

[wheresmycar]

There doesn't have to be a legal drag for there to be a crow hop.

If there is no drag, it is not a crow hop, it's a Leap, which is also illegal. A crow hop, by definition includes a drag.