Crow hopping

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Mar 28, 2014
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At the end of the day, I think what we're collectively saying is we want to shut down the illegal pitchers but the only way to do that is to have the umpire call IP after IP after IP after IP until the pitcher has to leave the game.

I'm not sure that's ever happened in the history of the game and I'm not willing to be the first one to do it!
Would you call a slapper out 4 times in a game for stepping out of the box if she did it in all 4 of her at bats?
 
May 16, 2016
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In the video example, even though the drag foot remains in contact with the ground, the pitcher is essentially starting his motion at the replant. His arms do NOT "continue without stopping in the delivery". I don't believe this motion allows him to throw the ball any faster, but he is Starting his arm circle 3 feet closer to home plate, making it an illegal crow hop.

Honestly, I doubt many of us have seen a true "Crow Hop" as defined in the ASA rules.

What Is Crow Hopping?
According to the ASA rule book, crow hopping refers to:

“the act of a pitcher who steps, hops, or drags off the front of the pitcher’s plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus (or starting point), pushes off from the newly-established starting point and completes the delivery.”

NCAA rules are slightly different, and they do include language about the drag foot not bearing weight. And this creates confusion for those playing under a different rule set.
 

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Dec 6, 2016
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I'll take this from a different point of view...the athlete's point of view. Some may think I cheat on my taxes now (based on a previous post), but oh well.

I played 4 years of college football as an offensive lineman. For an offensive lineman, I wasn't the tallest; I wasn't the fastest and I definitely wasn't the strongest, but 3 of those years I was All-Conference and my senior year, I was a 2nd team All-American. What I did was study my opponents and find their weaknesses and exploit it to my advantage. Sometimes there were no weaknesses and I had to have a plan that may have "bent" the rules. I did whatever it took to beat my opponent. When I say “bent” the rules…I’m not talking about hurting anyone on purpose or anything like that. I’m talking about holding. When I say holding, I promise you that I was holding on every play of every game. I could do it better than anybody and not get caught. Is that against the rules. Yup! If no flag was thrown on me, I guarantee you the next play I was doing it again, and again, and again.

All this to say, I will do whatever it takes to beat you. If I have to bend the rules and not get caught doing it…I’m going to do it all day long. You can go home with your loss and I’ll go home with my Conference Championship ring (all 3 of them)!

And I have this to say, as well: The people here arguing about this have probably never stepped foot on a field and battled for themselves, one on one against another opponent. Comparing doing something against the rules in a sport setting and doing something illegal outside a sport setting is asinine. If holding was a crime, I would be serving a life sentence!
 
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Aug 30, 2015
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Would you call a slapper out 4 times in a game for stepping out of the box if she did it in all 4 of her at bats?
Absolutely. But that's never happened, at least not by me.

After the first time (sometimes the 2nd time), the slapper (or bunter) is able to adjust and keep her foot inside.

And this is my point...most of these "illegal" things in a game can be corrected pretty quickly--except for the crow hop/crow drag.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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Absolutely. But that's never happened, at least not by me.

After the first time (sometimes the 2nd time), the slapper (or bunter) is able to adjust and keep her foot inside.

And this is my point...most of these "illegal" things in a game can be corrected pretty quickly--except for the crow hop/crow drag.
Seems like arbitrary enforcement to me but what do I know. I think the umpires are doing nothing but enabling these girls by allowing it to continue because it "can't be changed" during a game. How will they know to change it during practice if it is never called during a game? Continued threats to call it have no impact if there is never follow through by the umpires.
 
Aug 30, 2015
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Seems like arbitrary enforcement to me but what do I know. I think the umpires are doing nothing but enabling these girls by allowing it to continue because it "can't be changed" during a game. How will they know to change it during practice if it is never called during a game? Continued threats to call it have no impact if there is never follow through by the umpires.
How you would handle this situation if you were the umpire in the game?

Be specific.
 
May 17, 2012
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Blaming the umpires is shortsighted. If the sanctioning bodies and tournament directors wanted to make it a matter of importance it would be.

Vote with your dollars and stop playing NCAA, NFHS, PGF, ASA, USSSA, etc.!

Of course no one feels that strongly about it…
 
Dec 27, 2014
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My observation of college games is a pitcher can crow hop if she doesn't leap to get to her re-plant. Leaping = drag foot getting airborne. Very little advantage to be had.

Crow hopping is that 2nd push. All the base ump has to look at is if the back foot is positioned in the drag to bear weight. If it can bare weight it will, and then there is a push. If it is just the toe dragging, or side of the toe , it can't bear weight so there is no replant. If the whole SIDE of the foot is dragging there will be a replant because you can stand while on the side of your foot If the bottom of the foot is down during the "drag" there will be a replant because it can bear weight.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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How you would handle this situation if you were the umpire in the game?

Be specific.
I would follow the rule book and call it accordingly. I would not create my own rulebook and enforce those rules. I would enforce the rules of the association's rulebook. That's what it is there for I believe.
 
Mar 28, 2014
1,081
113
Blaming the umpires is shortsighted. If the sanctioning bodies and tournament directors wanted to make it a matter of importance it would be.

Vote with your dollars and stop playing NCAA, NFHS, PGF, ASA, USSSA, etc.!

Of course no one feels that strongly about it…
You are talking about whether or not the rule should exist and while that is a legitimate question, I am talking about enforcement of the rules in the rulebook. The rule is in the book. If the rule is in the book, it is up to the umpires to enforce them so until the rulebook is changed, who else can you blame for non-enforcement?
 

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