Won an appeal this weekend

[SoCalDad]

Situation: Runner on 1st, 1 out. Count is 1-2. Batter strikes out on a drop ball that hits the dirt before my catcher gloves the ball. Runner on 1st steals during the pitch. My catcher throws to 2nd and SS tags out the runner. The batter seeing the dropped 3rd strike ran to first. At first the ump ruled the runner on 1st was safe as the base was not occupied. I appealed the call arguing that the steal attempt did not vacate the base. Upon further review ump agreed and batter was called out on strikes.

Woo Hoo. Now my all time record for winning appeals is 1 - 7. My winning appeal average (WAA) is .143.

 

[BretMan]

This is another one of those often misinterprted rules that comes up fairly often (well, more often with inexperienced coaches or umpires). When the runner at first steals, many think that means that first base is no longer "occupied".

The rules regarding uncaught third strikes and when the batter can advance to first make it clear that whether first base is occupied or not is determined by where the runner is at the time of the pitch. I certainly hope that the runner on first was there "at the time of the pitch", because if she wasn't then she should have been called out for leaving early!

Congratulations for knowing the rule and helping the umpire to see the light!

 

[cshilt]

Bret, I'm very glad to see you posting on this site!

Folks, if you have rule questions throw up the BretSignal(tm) and you will get a reply from a knowledgeable and seasoned umpire's perspective.

 

[BretMan]

What's up, C !

Yes, there are a few familiar faces on this board.

 

[shockcoach]

I lost one and won two this weekend. First one was a BB issued to my batter. Ball thrown back to their pitcher in the circle. My runner jogs to 1st, rounds it, then returns to the base. Field umpire declares my runner out via look back rule. I called time and explained that the BR can round 1st, stop, then either immediately continue to 2nd or return to 1st base. She said nope, can't do that. I claim Yes, you can. Please check with PU to clarify the rule. They conference and declare my runner OUT!

ASA Rule 8, Section 7, T3a states

3. Responsibilities of the batter-runner after touching first base, and
while the pitcher has control of the ball within the eight foot radius
of the pitcher’s plate. This includes a base on balls or a dropped
third strike.
a. A batter-runner who rounds first base toward second base
may stop once, but then must immediately non-stop return to
first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base.

I was correct, but lost that one.

Next game batter check swings. PU calls ball. I ask for time and ask the PU "Can I have you ask for help from the field umpire"
Blue responds "NO! But your catcher can."
I say to my DD behind the plate. "DD, ask the umpire it he will ask for help on that call"
DD, "HUH?"
Me, "Ask the umpire for help!"
DD, mumbles something to him. Then the PU asks the field ump for help. He called it a strike.
I was laughing be butt off, but appreciated his way of getting the kids involved. It happened one more time this game, but I had my catcher ask for help that time. Got another strike call.

Good umpire, he is.

 

[SoCalDad]

...DD, mumbles something to him. Then the PU asks the field ump for help. He called it a strike...

Several years ago I was coaching a 10U tournament team and worked with my catcher onappealing check swings to the FU. In one of our first games the batter check swings and the PU calls it a ball. My catcher immediately appeals and points towards first base just as we had practiced. Unfortunately this was pool play and we only had the PU. At least he had a sense of humor. He told my catcher, "I don't think the first base coach is going to call a strike on his own batter."

 

[BretMan]

I lost one and won two this weekend. First one was a BB issued to my batter. Ball thrown back to their pitcher in the circle. My runner jogs to 1st, rounds it, then returns to the base. Field umpire declares my runner out via look back rule. I called time and explained that the BR can round 1st, stop, then either immediately continue to 2nd or return to 1st base. She said nope, can't do that. I claim Yes, you can. Please check with PU to clarify the rule. They conference and declare my runner OUT!

I was correct, but lost that one.

Then your next step should have been to file a PROTEST. You seem to have access to the ASA rule book. See rule 9 for what can be officially protested and how to go about it. It sounds pretty obvious that the umpires in your game misinterpreted the Look Back Rule. When a rule is misinterpreted, the rules afford the offended coach the opportunity to officially file a protest. But you have to make that intention known and you have to be specific about what rule you believe they got wrong.

Where a lot of people get confused is from intermingling the rule book definitions and requirements of: 1) Asking an umpire to check with his partner for additional help; 2) Executing an actual Appeal Play, or; 3) Filing an Official Protest.

Technically, none of the situations discussed in this thread were officially "Appeal Plays". Yes, you all "appealed" to the umpires in the generic sense of the word. You thought that they had something wrong and asked about it. While in layman's terms you may have "appealed" for a clarification, the rule book lists only a limited number of honest-to-goodness situations that qualify as "appeal plays". By-the-book, an appeal play is one where the umpires can never issue a ruling unless specifically asked to do so by a coach or player. Examples would be a runner missing a base, a runner leaving her base too soon on a caught fly ball or a batting out of order situation. No player can ever be called out for these violations unless the defense properly executes an appeal play.

"Appealing" to an umpire if you think a rule has been misinterpreted does not automatically mean that you have "protested" in the official sense of the word. You might question, argue or disagree with how the rule was interpreted, but a protest isn't "official" until you make it known per the requirements of rule 9. If officially protested, and your protest is upheld by whomever reviews it (usually a tournament director or league officials) that means that the umpires were wrong and you were right. The call would be overturned and corrected and the the game would be resumed at precisely that point.

Requesting that an umpire who made a call check with his partner for help really doesn't fit either rule book definition of an appeal play or official protest. It is simply that- a request. At his discretion, an umpire can either deny your request (if he is sure he had the call right and doesn't need any further input) or check with his partner (if he thinks his partner may have seen something he didn't, like if his view was blocked on the play, he missed a pulled foot at first base, he may not have seen the ball come loose on a tag or maybe even to clarify a playing rule).

An appeal play, an official protest and asking an umpire to get help from his partner are all separate and distinct actions, covered by different rules in the rule book. A coach that understands the differences, and knows how to handle each scenario, has the best chance of getting a call corrected in favor of his team- even if the umpires had it wrong in the first place!