Batter and runners think it’s ball 4

[softballphreak]

There are certain teams that run this play and it works the majority of the time. When you play these teams you need your catcher to be on alert, ask the ump what the count is often and get the runner at third. It's a low budget move IMO.

 

[dbronstein]

I get it, but do you think there's no place for outsmarting the opponent? Is it not fair to expect players (of a certain age) to be paying attention?

If in the WCWS, someone did the "pretend throw went into the outfield" trick and it worked, I think most people would rightly say the runner (and base coaches) need to do their jobs better.

It can be both. The runner/coach should he paying better attention, and it woukd still be a bush league play IMO

The example of the outfielder faking the catch is naturally occurring, you can't plan for the hitter to set it up.

And I think all the stalling in timed games is completely Bush league.

Ultimately the definition of bush league is in the eye of the beholder and I think for all of us it's impossible to give a solid definition.

 

[CoachJD]

And I think all the stalling in timed games is completely Bush league.

Ultimately the definition of bush league is in the eye of the beholder and I think for all of us it's impossible to give a solid definition.

Agreed. And agree on the timed game stuff, too. But sometimes playing that bush league stuff can backfire.

Our 10u team plays in a rec league with a 1:45 drop dead time, no revert. I don't play games with the time, but I certainly strategize for the time. Today, for example, we knew we wouldn't play the full 5 innings, so we had our better pitcher throw 3 of the first 4, stuff like that. None of the stuff where everybody's shoelaces come untied by "accident."

Bottom 4 ends tied 2-2 after we had a fairly rough inning in the field. There's I think 7 minutes left. First pitch of the next inning was with under 3 minutes left because the stalled like crazy and the ump is a kid who I'm not gonna pressure into speeding things up. Leadoff hitter is a new girl who's been hitting very well. So I tell my DW, the 1B coach, to just send her to second no matter what she hits.

She hits a dribbler about 5 feet in front of the plate. Pitcher fires the ball down the RF line. We send her all the way around. One more overthrow on the way back in and she scores easily with less than 30 seconds on the clock. We win 3-2 (which I hate because I think scores should revert, but these are the league rules).

If the other team doesn't mess around with the clock, I'm not taking chances with the leadoff hitter like that. We only did it because we knew we wouldn't have a chance to get another batter or two in.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Call me the odd duck ... if the clock is an element of the game, the clock is an element of the game. Then again, I firmly believe in drop dead (no reversion) if we are using a clock.

Managing the clock is valid strategy, as long as it is done legally.

Pass-to-kill in basketball, hockey, and soccer. Kneel down in football. All valid and solid strategies. Once we put a clock on softball/baseball, we fundamentally change the game. There is nothing wrong with that, but you cannot continue to play the old way under new rules.

Taking all of your conferences is legal. Changing pitchers is legal. There are prescribed time limits (on batter and pitchers) within the existing game, use them, don't abuse them.

 

[dbronstein]

Pass-to-kill in basketball, hockey, and soccer. Kneel down in football. All valid and solid strategies. Once we put a clock on softball/baseball, we fundamentally change the game. There is nothing wrong with that, but you cannot continue to play the old way under new rules.

The comparisons to other sports aren't valid because in other sports you can't call timeout and run time off the clock.

I agree that once you put in a clock then manipulating it becomes part of the game, for better or worse. But you can't compare softball to other sports in this regard because in other sports you have to play the game to manipulate the clock. In softball you do it by not playing the game. It's not even remotely the same thing.

That's why I think it's bush league. You're not playing softball. You're calling timeout, pretending to tie shoes, "fixing" catcher gear, etc.

 

[Nasolis]

The comparisons to other sports aren't valid because in other sports you can't call timeout and run time off the clock.

I agree that once you put in a clock then manipulating it becomes part of the game, for better or worse. But you can't compare softball to other sports in this regard because in other sports you have to play the game to manipulate the clock. In softball you do it by not playing the game. It's not even remotely the same thing.

That's why I think it's bush league. You're not playing softball. You're calling timeout, pretending to tie shoes, "fixing" catcher gear, etc.

I agree that playing the clock like that is bush league, however, it is now a part of the game.

That said one of the best tournaments I have been to as an umpire was timed, but they required us to stop the clock for a time-out for any reason once there was 5 minutes left. This took care of most of it, because a coach would ask me how much time was left I would say 4:30, he would call time go the mound and continue to talk for a minute. On the way back he would ask about the time, I would say 4:30. The look of defeat on their face is priceless. This is mostly the newer coaches to the tournament style. They are informed of this rule during the coaches meeting, they just forget in the heat.

Even with this 95% of my games were on-time or early. Last year my field was even one hour ahead of schedule. So added this little stoppage does not slow the game down any. Towards the end the coaches get used to it and they really only request time for valid reasons.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The comparisons to other sports aren't valid because in other sports you can't call timeout and run time off the clock.

I agree that once you put in a clock then manipulating it becomes part of the game, for better or worse. But you can't compare softball to other sports in this regard because in other sports you have to play the game to manipulate the clock. In softball you do it by not playing the game. It's not even remotely the same thing.

That's why I think it's bush league. You're not playing softball. You're calling timeout, pretending to tie shoes, "fixing" catcher gear, etc.

I get the difference you are pointing out, but I guess my stance is what difference does that make? Why do you care if the coach is taking a conference or the centerfielder is re-lacing her entire glove? At least using a conference is an above-board way of using time.

Coach uses a conference = 60 seconds or less.

Pitcher takes her full amount of time to throw 4 pitches = 80 seconds.

I will also go back into my bag of grumpiness on this topic and ask you to reflect on how much time your team wasted in minutes 1 to 65. How much time did it take you to throw the first pitch after the clock started? (I rarely see the first pitch thrown within 2 minutes of starting, even when the clock doesn't start till the first warm up pitch.) How much time did you spend having your team pow-wows every inning? How about that time we had to wait for you to figure out who your courtesy runner was? But now, inside of 7 minutes to go, NOW you are concerned about what the other team is doing.

 

[RADcatcher]

I get the difference you are pointing out, but I guess my stance is what difference does that make? Why do you care if the coach is taking a conference or the centerfielder is re-lacing her entire glove? At least using a conference is an above-board way of using time.

Coach uses a conference = 60 seconds or less.

Pitcher takes her full amount of time to throw 4 pitches = 80 seconds.

I will also go back into my bag of grumpiness on this topic and ask you to reflect on how much time your team wasted in minutes 1 to 65. How much time did it take you to throw the first pitch after the clock started? (I rarely see the first pitch thrown within 2 minutes of starting, even when the clock doesn't start till the first warm up pitch.) How much time did you spend having your team pow-wows every inning? How about that time we had to wait for you to figure out who your courtesy runner was? But now, inside of 7 minutes to go, NOW you are concerned about what the other team is doing.

Controlling the time clock is the same. The strategy that's used is different in each sport.

Here is a place to change the pace of the game~
Instead of a pitcher coming out and throwing five warm up pitches...
just have the defense on the field and start playing the next inning. No warm up pitches, no infield warm up throwing the ball around, just get into the next inning!! Batter up!

Suggestion Try doing this in friendlies and can see how effective speeding up the game can be!
Simply
Controlling time in the game can be both offensive or defensive strategy and can start at the beginning of the game.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Another one of my odd opinions …

The “effort to hustle” between innings (i.e., pitcher warming up) is not actually about cutting 90 seconds to 60 seconds, it’s about setting the pace and attitude of the entire game. There is a reason we say “pace of play” when referring to this instead of saying “length of play.”

I’ll also go back to my other soapbox … the game should end the moment the mercy rule is reached. Sorry you couldn’t score in 3-4 at bats and you gave up 15-20 runs. It’s time to lick your wounds and get ready for the next one.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Controlling the time clock is the same. The strategy that's used is different in each sport.

Here is a place to change the pace of the game~
Instead of a pitcher coming out and throwing five warm up pitches...
just have the defense on the field and start playing the next inning. No warm up pitches, no infield warm up throwing the ball around, just get into the next inning!! Batter up!

Suggestion Try doing this in friendlies and can see how effective speeding up the game can be!
Simply
Controlling time in the game can be both offensive or defensive strategy and can start at the beginning of the game.

I should have quoted you before …

I ABSOLUTELY agree that your strategy for the clock starts at the beginning of the game. When you show you don’t care early, I’m not going to care late. Show me you care early and we will squeeze in every bit of softball that we can.