Why all the angst?

[newsoftballdad]

2 plays come to mind. Line drive absolutely smoked bounces off 3rd baseman shin. E5 was ruling by scorekeeper. Given this SKs kid never played and the guy was toughest SK I've ever seen. Same SK, ball hit in left center gap. Cf dives ball hits the glove and bounces out. E8 was ruling. We were on offense both times.

Seems harsh to take away hits in those cases. It may not be an exact science, but I use ordinary effort based on the agrregate of players I have seen at a particular age. 18U maybe 3b makes that play, 12U maybe not.

 

[CoogansBluff]

You don't need a good scorekeeper for stats to hold some meaning. A line drive in the gap is a hit. There's no debate about 90 percent of plays. A good scorekeeper is valuable, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to do a decent job if trained. If you are a coach and want to be fair about doing your lineup and honestly assess players on a competitive team, you must keep stats, or you're doing a disservice to yourself and the players. Not saying that stats are the bottom line. But to ignore them is irrational if not foolish.

 

[Indiana]

No need for angst - just look at the objective stats, as Sluggers mentioned. Or just look at on base percentage and RBIs. Hit vs error is subjective not only from the scorekeeper's point of view but also from the level of competition. You could be playing a team whose center fielder is a gazelle and plucks everything out of thin air, or you could be playing a team whose CF wants nothing whatsoever to do with the ball - it makes a big difference in hits, flyouts and ROE's.

 

[Greenmonsters]

No need for angst - just look at the objective stats, as Sluggers mentioned. Or just look at on base percentage and RBIs. Hit vs error is subjective not only from the scorekeeper's point of view but also from the level of competition. You could be playing a team whose center fielder is a gazelle and plucks everything out of thin air, or you could be playing a team whose CF wants nothing whatsoever to do with the ball - it makes a big difference in hits, flyouts and ROE's.

Although ROEs are not included in the standard OBA calculation, OBA including ROEs can serve to level the playing field when the scoring is done by a biased scorekeeper.

 

[Rocketech1]

No need for angst - just look at the objective stats, as Sluggers mentioned. Or just look at on base percentage and RBIs. Hit vs error is subjective not only from the scorekeeper's point of view but also from the level of competition. You could be playing a team whose center fielder is a gazelle and plucks everything out of thin air, or you could be playing a team whose CF wants nothing whatsoever to do with the ball - it makes a big difference in hits, flyouts and ROE's.

The bolded above are also subjective because whether or not an error is committed on the play effects the OBP and RBI precentages.

Very few stats are truly objective: balls and strikes, the number of pitches thrown, plate appearances, and the score of the game are a select few that come to mind that are 100% objective but most other stats are only as good as the scorekeeper.

I love stats but they are only one of many factors to be considered when creating your line-up.

 

[humpty]

Although ROEs are not included in the standard OBA calculation, OBA including ROEs can serve to level the playing field when the scoring is done by a biased scorekeeper.

Absolutely agree. OB plus ROE is a great stat.

 

[Rocketech1]

Absolutely agree. OB plus ROE is a great stat.

I also agree. We had a player on DD's team that always led the team in ROE and by no coincidence she happened to be the kid that hit the ball the hardest thereby "creating" some of those ROE.

 

[CoogansBluff]

No need for angst - just look at the objective stats, as Sluggers mentioned. Or just look at on base percentage and RBIs. Hit vs error is subjective not only from the scorekeeper's point of view but also from the level of competition. .

Are you saying that batting average and other subjective stats are meaningless because of a potentially biased scorekeeper and the inherent subjectivity of scoring?

Let's ask this:

Let's say you are having tryouts for your travel team. You are allowed to have the official team stats for every player who shows up from their previous travel team. Would consider that information to be useless?

I would not pick my team based on that. But I'd sure be interested in it. If three girls from the Central Park Stingers show up, and one batted .400 with 20 extra-base hits, and the other two hit .250 with 5 extra-base hits, I would consider that in their evaluation. I don't care who kept score for them.

 

[humpty]

I also agree. We had a player on DD's team that always led the team in ROE and by no coincidence she happened to be the kid that hit the ball the hardest thereby "creating" some of those ROE.

Or they have speed and they are making the defense hurry.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Generally, because parents and coaches don't want to look at the objective stats (walks, runs scored, RBIs, stolen bases, putouts, strikeouts, balls, strikes, etc.) and would prefer to look at subjective stats (errors, ERA, hits).

I get the gist of what you’re saying, but disagree a bit with your short list of objective stats.

Objective stats can't really be compared between teams due to the difference in competitive level of play. (Batting .400 playing gold ball in SoCal is a lot different than batting .400 playing C ball in South Carolina.) So, stats are more or less useful as a comparison tool between team members.

I agree.

BUT: stats aren't helpful to a coach in managing playing time:

OOPS! Ya lost me there. Show me a coach who says s/he uses NO stats in helping him manage PT and I’ll show you a liar. Remember, any piece of data can be turned into a measurement of some kind, not just what comes out of the scorebook.

(1) A team has X number of players. X may vary between coaches, but the reason a coach has X number of players is because the coach thinks X is the correct number of players.
(2) In order to keep X number of players on the team, you have to keep each player and their parents "happy".
(3) Any idiot can figure out the top five players on the team in 5 minutes. (The kids who run the fastest, throw the ball the farthest and hit the ball the farthest are the best players on your team.)
(4) Playing time management is about how to divide up playing time between the second tier players to keep them "happy".
(5) The only thing that makes these players and parents "happy" is more or less equal playing time.

I agree in general, but without using any stat of any kind, how does anyone have any idea what “equal” means?