Why all the angst?

[FP26]

I would not want to pick a pitcher without having some additional information. I find it odd that pitcher A had approximately 1 decision per 5 innings pitched, while pitcher B has 1 decision per 10 innings pitched. Almost seems as if pitcher B is used as a relief pitcher. I would want to know the level of competition. Here is an example from my own personal experience in a recent tournament. I realize it is only 1 game worth of data.

Pitcher A - 6 innings. 7 strike outs. 3 walks. Won the game 10-2.
Pitcher B - 6 innings. 2 strike outs. 1 walk. Lost the game 2-1.

Pitcher A pitched against what was probably a C level team and is probably our #3 pitcher overall. Pitcher B pitched against what I would call an A level team and is probably our #1 pitcher. We were actually winning that game, but in the 4th inning a girl reached on an error and the next batter hit a towering home run. She pitched great but made one very bad pitch. Two runs scored. End of story...

 

[Scorekeeper]

Kindred souls indeed. Nice to know I'm not the only metrics die-hard.

I also love the new parents coming over and telling me they know how to keep score and will do it whenever I need a break. Usually before I'm done telling them that I enjoy it and I prefer one person to do it because consistency is more credible (i.e., multiple observers or SKs introduces more levels of bias and inconsistency in the numbers), they say something about all the detail on the scoresheet. We SKs pride ourselves on doing the job - being able to record the game so it can be reconstructed play-by-play at a later date if needed. And I do love it when I meet someone on the same rules page as me, who interprets the rules similarly. But a lot of parents never read the rule book. I must be really boring because I actually enjoy looking stuff up and reading the rules.

You don’t bore me at all, but then again we’re a lot alike. Here’s how I handle my duties with reference to the rules. I think I’m pretty good with the scoring rules, but I keep a copy of MLB OBR on the computer I score with and on the one I do the stats and my writing on. I don’t often start looking something up during a game, but when I’m writing the newsletter and verifying the stats for the game, I’ll look up anything I have the least little question about.

Remembering that I’m a HS BB scorer, its easier for me to do that then it would be for a SB scorer because the rules are different. I get some talking heads going on about how since I’m scoring HSBB I should be using NFHS rules, but I have personal problems with that. There are things in the MLB OBR that should be in the FED rules, but aren’t. Things like an explanation of what “ordinary effort” is. I know that as long as I score using OBR, the worst that will happen is something might be too strict, but I’ll always have the latest rules to work with.

That would be more difficult with SB, but I’m sure there’s a hierarchy there too, so one rule set can usually be counted on to be the “superior” one. FI, not knowing the intricacies of SB rules, I’d say ASA rules were superior to FED rules. The important thing is to be consistent and not score one game using Fed rules, another using NCAA rules, and another using ASA rules.

On top of having the rules available digitally, I always carry a current NFHS rulebook. Not so much for me, but for people who want to know some picayune little rule that I really don’t have the time to explain. I hand them the book and tell them what to look for. One of the most often asked questions I get during games, especially “close” or “important” ones, is about the number of visits the coach can make. For a long time I tried to tell people not to worry because the coach knows that rule very well, but now I just hand ‘em the book.

One of the biggest problems most people who don’t do a lot of rule reading have, is that they stop as soon as they find anything about what they’re looking for, rather than looking up everything about it in case there’s some goofy little thing that goes against what usually happens. IOW, the rules can get a bit complicated, and that scares a lot of people away.

Another thing is, most people don’t understand that there are game conduct rules and there are scoring rules. Two different things and the responsibility of two different people. I crack up every time someone screams at the umpire about how something was hit or if a run was earned or not, and the ump looks at them and just blows it off because it ain’t their job. The same thing happens to me as there’s always someone pitching the you-know-what about a safe/out, fair/foul, or some other call that is purely the umpire’s call.

One of my favorite things to do with the people complaining about balls and strikes is to ask them what the pitch is if the pitcher heaves the ball over the fence in delivering a pitch. Very few people understand that its whatever the umpire says it is.

 

[Scorekeeper]

…Here's a question. Hypothetical must-win game, do you start pitcher A or pitcher B? And, more importantly why?...

I hate to be this way, but there’s just not enough info for me. The main thing I’d be wondering is, when did they each pitch last, and how are they injury wise. It might be the pitcher I want to throw had just thrown an early game that day, and it was one of those 102 degree 99% humidity days, or the pitcher I want pulled a hammy and can’t push off the way she needs to.

 

[Greenmonsters]

The obvious answer is to start Pitcher B, because, when normalized, her stats indicate she peformed better than Pitcher A. However, as most pointed out, we don't really have enough information to make a sound decision. And the fact is, as some suspected, Pitcher B's mound time consisted of starts against the weakest Cupcake U. Creampuff teams and finishing the last inning or two of games well in hand (as opposed to being the sacrificial lamb in blowouts v. the Behemoth U. Bombdroppers). Pitcher A typically faced stiffer competition and, statistically, fared only marginally worse than Pitcher B. So Pitcher B should get the start, right? Wrong! Pitcher C clearly earned the start - she was the staff ace who returned from injury at midseason that I neglected to mention in the OP!

As SK has noted previously, it would invaluable to have some way of modifying stats to quanitfy the strength of competition (e.g., opposing teams' record, cummulative team stats, individ player stats, relative strength of schedule) that each pitcher faced. Imagine the fun that could be had here at DFP if we could directly compare our kids' performances?!

Thank you for playing. PM GoingDeep for your prizes.


Disclaimer - artistic license was taken and the statistics presented were fudged in order to protect innocent hurlers

 

[Greenmonsters]

You don’t bore me at all, but then again we’re a lot alike. Here’s how I handle my duties with reference to the rules. I think I’m pretty good with the scoring rules, but I keep a copy of MLB OBR on the computer I score with and on the one I do the stats and my writing on. I don’t often start looking something up during a game, but when I’m writing the newsletter and verifying the stats for the game, I’ll look up anything I have the least little question about.

Remembering that I’m a HS BB scorer, its easier for me to do that then it would be for a SB scorer because the rules are different. I get some talking heads going on about how since I’m scoring HSBB I should be using NFHS rules, but I have personal problems with that. There are things in the MLB OBR that should be in the FED rules, but aren’t. Things like an explanation of what “ordinary effort” is. I know that as long as I score using OBR, the worst that will happen is something might be too strict, but I’ll always have the latest rules to work with.

That would be more difficult with SB, but I’m sure there’s a hierarchy there too, so one rule set can usually be counted on to be the “superior” one. FI, not knowing the intricacies of SB rules, I’d say ASA rules were superior to FED rules. The important thing is to be consistent and not score one game using Fed rules, another using NCAA rules, and another using ASA rules.

On top of having the rules available digitally, I always carry a current NFHS rulebook. Not so much for me, but for people who want to know some picayune little rule that I really don’t have the time to explain. I hand them the book and tell them what to look for. One of the most often asked questions I get during games, especially “close” or “important” ones, is about the number of visits the coach can make. For a long time I tried to tell people not to worry because the coach knows that rule very well, but now I just hand ‘em the book.

One of the biggest problems most people who don’t do a lot of rule reading have, is that they stop as soon as they find anything about what they’re looking for, rather than looking up everything about it in case there’s some goofy little thing that goes against what usually happens. IOW, the rules can get a bit complicated, and that scares a lot of people away.

Another thing is, most people don’t understand that there are game conduct rules and there are scoring rules. Two different things and the responsibility of two different people. I crack up every time someone screams at the umpire about how something was hit or if a run was earned or not, and the ump looks at them and just blows it off because it ain’t their job. The same thing happens to me as there’s always someone pitching the you-know-what about a safe/out, fair/foul, or some other call that is purely the umpire’s call.

One of my favorite things to do with the people complaining about balls and strikes is to ask them what the pitch is if the pitcher heaves the ball over the fence in delivering a pitch. Very few people understand that its whatever the umpire says it is.

My DD's team played USSSA, Pony, and ASA tournaments on consecutive weekends. Scorekeeping was simplified by relying on NCAA scoring guidelines; however, the coaches had nightmares with all the DP/Flex/EP/AP and substitution/re-entry subtlities and variations.

 

[Scorekeeper]

My DD's team played USSSA, Pony, and ASA tournaments on consecutive weekends. Scorekeeping was simplified by relying on NCAA scoring guidelines; however, the coaches had nightmares with all the DP/Flex/EP/AP and substitution/re-entry subtlities and variations.

Keep in mind that I’m a baseball guy, but the same thing happens in SB. For several years I spent a lot of time and effort on trying to do away with all the different rule sets and combine them into one that the different venues could then modify with just a page or two of changes rather than an entire rulebook. But here’s the rub. $$$$$ and prestige.

NFHS counts on the funds they get from selling rule books, plus they have an entire sub-bureaucracy built into their organization just to deal with them. Another good example is LLI. They literally use OBR with modifications for baseball, but publish their own rules and have that same sub-bureaucracy. I’m guessing they do the same thing for SB.

I tried to get umpires on board, using the logic that an amateur umpire qualified to call both SB and BB literally needed to know about 10 different rule books. The umpires pushed back, claiming there were plenty of great books that showed the differences, thus eliminating all confusion.

In the end it’s a very complicated mess in either sport, and it doesn’t have to be. But us humans #1 don’t like change, #2 don’t easily give up prestige, and #3 really don’t like to give up $$$$!