Stats

[riseball]

Well, I’m glad you’re impressed, but that aside, I never said stats were all that mattered in the process, but that they do matter, and to what degree they matter is up to whoever is doing the recruiting. Even by your statement they matter, even if not as much as other things, so what is your argument or complaint here? I mean c’mon. “hardly worth mentioning” is nowhere near “meaningless” is it?

Since you want to inject your experience, can you give some real incidents of prospects being hurt because their stats were provided, or is that just your opinion? The more I think about it I have to wonder why any recruiter would possibly consider it a black mark in a prospects chances simply because they were given a player’s stats. Think about that. Assume a really top notch player’s father sends a prospective coach his child’s stats. How stupid would that coach be to throw everything about that player in the dumper? If s/he didn’t want the stats, why not just toss those rather than the player. Seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me.

It is not the stats actually working against them. Rather it is the parents zeal in providing stats, newspaper clippings, list of awards, and so on as though they are paramount to the recruiting process. The bible tells us that Samson killed 10,00 Philistines with the jaw bone of an rear. Unfortunately, many scholarship opportunities meet the same fate when players, coaches, and parents fail to understand that less is more. For that reason unless specifically requested, the stats, clippings, and tales of HS softball glory are best left at home in the scrapbook.

 

[slingnit]

Tone? If you read a tone in that post, chances are something I said struck home, and if it did, as I said in the post, its most likely because you didn’t think the process through.

I’ve been hearing this same kind of claptrap for many many years, and to be honest, in almost every case when someone takes the position that HS stats mean nothing, what they’re not doing is thinking about that they’re saying, which is what I was trying to convey. As much as some want to believe it, there’s no magic scholarship fairy that flits around from coach to coach, sprinkling fairy dust on them, after which they suddenly become aware of some player somewhere in the country that they were previously unaware of.

Something puts all players on the next level radar all right, but it ain’t fairy dust, its performance. And how is performance measured? It’s measured by statistics, valid or not, against good competition or bad. If you think college BB or SB has the millions of $$$$$ college FB has to go searching for players, you’re kidding yourself. And even in FB before a coach or scout shows up to put eyeballs on a player, you can bet your bippy they know just about every stat on that player there is, including his waist and foot size.

The stats do become almost irrelevant once real eyeballs are put on the player, but until then it’s all they have, other than the wink wink, nod, nod, contacts they get from friends of the program and alums. If you’re offended by what I said, you didn’t think it through or ask yourself this. “How do higher level programs become aware of players that might fit their programs?”

Now if you think the measurement of performance is based solely on stats then you are either ignorant, blind, misinformed or all of the above! From dd's Tb team there were 7 that went d1 and 2 of those on top 10 teams. Not once did any if the coaches that were recruiting the girls ask for stats. Stats do not tell you if a ss can make a throw to first from deep in the hole. Stats do not tell you if a pitcher can adjust to an umps zone or if she is pulled before things got out of hand. Stats don't show the disgusted look on a players face when a team mate makes an error. Stats don't show that the 30 bomb season were on a 185 ft home field fence. Stats can be skewed to show exactly what you want someone to see.

 

[Scorekeeper]

It is not the stats actually working against them. Rather it is the parents zeal in providing stats, newspaper clippings, list of awards, and so on as though they are paramount to the recruiting process. The bible tells us that Samson killed 10,00 Philistines with the jaw bone of an rear. Unfortunately, many scholarship opportunities meet the same fate when players, coaches, and parents fail to understand that less is more. For that reason unless specifically requested, the stats, clippings, and tales of HS softball glory are best left at home in the scrapbook.

Well, you may well be correct that every single coach/scout/recruiter at every level above HS will scratch every player off his/her list if someone sends them that player’s stats, clippings, and tales of HS softball glory. Personally, I seriously doubt many coaches/scouts/recruiters care one way or the other because I can’t wrap my head around any coach tossing aside the opportunity to get any player for that reason alone. If there were so many good players every program had more than enough clamoring to get into their program I’d feel differently, but that’s not the case anyplace I’ve ever heard of.

You seem to be trying to drag helicopter or PITA parents into the conversation, but that’s not something that levels above HS have a great deal of trouble with.

 

[MNDad]

The first and only time we were asked for DD's stats was for her bio after she signed her NLI. Call me stupid or ignorant, but HS stats are pretty meaningless.

 

[flipper14]

You sound pretty full of yourself and impress me as someone who can go on endlessly about what and how things should be. But it is obvious that you lack any real world experience in the college softball recruiting process. Your pontification aside, stats are so far down on the list of what matters in the recruiting process it hardly worth mentioning. From my experience providing stats more often than not hurts the prospect more than it helps.

You are correct, Riseball. Stats really don't matter. If you asked 100 college coaches to choose to evaluate a player and they had to choose video or stats, they are picking video 100 times out of 100.

The only time they may glance at stats is at PGF nationals, for example, they may look at to see who led the tourney in home runs or strikeouts per innings pitched, for example, but they certainly aren't making a decision on a kid based on stats.

 

[Scorekeeper]

….but they certainly aren't making a decision on a kid based on stats.

Who said anything about anyone making a choice about a player going to the next level based only on stats? It sure wasn’t me. And I’ll ask you the same question I’ve asked before. How is it that any player gets on anyone’s radar? Is there some magical communication system that lets everyone know that a player is performing better than their peers? Is there a list that says Billy’s better than Bobby or Sally’s better than Betty with no explanation. or does someone find out Jane’s killing the ball or Tom’s striking out more than 2 batters a game because of the stats?

Go ask any college coach how many ships they offer based only on a video, with no other information about how that player performs.

 

[Scorekeeper]

The first and only time we were asked for DD's stats was for her bio after she signed her NLI. Call me stupid or ignorant, but HS stats are pretty meaningless.

And you’d bet your life that before she signed no one knew any of her baseball stats that showed performance?

 

[29dad]

And you’d bet your life that before she signed no one knew any of her baseball stats that showed performance?

I have seen MNDad's daughter pitch, and I'd be willing to bet MY life that when the college coaches saw her pitch, in big tournaments against top competition, piling up win after win, they saw a 6'3" girl throw a rise ball that started off fairly slow, that actually stopped half way to home plate, just a slight pause for dramatic effect, and then, from a dead stop mind you, explode into the catcher's mitt covering the last 20' at approximately 89 mph while the batters repeatedly waived at it helplessly... well those coaches didn't need to know whether her ERA for the season was 0.63 or 1.25 or 1.79.

In all seriousness, the local newspaper publishes high school stats. So many girls have batting averages above .900 that I would find it hard to believe that any college coach would take those stats very seriously. Mildly intrigued, perhaps, but that's about it. But I grant you that some types of stats do matter. You atend an ondeck tryout and post a 20 yard time of 2.5? Or post a bat speed of 84mph? Or hit 66 on the gun? Yes, those stats matter. But a high school batting average of .633? Not so much.

 

[MNDad]

And you’d bet your life that before she signed no one knew any of her baseball stats that showed performance?

Yes, that's an easy bet. HS stats played no part in her recruting. She gained exposure though camps, showcases, an online video and national tournaments. I'd be willing to bet my life that not one coach watched her pitch and thought well, she looks decent, I wonder what her HS stats are".

 

[MNDad]

I have seen MNDad's daughter pitch, and I'd be willing to bet MY life that when the college coaches saw her pitch, in big tournaments against top competition, piling up win after win, they saw a 6'3" girl throw a rise ball that started off fairly slow, that actually stopped half way to home plate, just a slight pause for dramatic effect, and then, from a dead stop mind you, explode into the catcher's mitt covering the last 20' at approximately 89 mph while the batters repeatedly waived at it helplessly... well those coaches didn't need to know whether her ERA for the season was 0.63 or 1.25 or 1.79.

That's only when she pitches from the Grassy Knoll with the magic softball.