Stats

[Scorekeeper]

re: Scorekeeper

I suspect that high school baseball stats carry more weight than high school softball stats. In my experience, baseball regions (conferences, leagues, whatever they may be called from state to state) have more depth and parity than softball regions. That's not from any measurable data, just my experience from watching both of them up close. I've seen high school regions where every starter on every team is a year-round player. If you play in a region like that, stats carry some weight. If you play in a softball region where the top two teams have college-committed pitchers and the bottom two have rec pitchers, and what's worse, rec outfielders where fly balls become doubles, then stats lose value quickly. I believe you see a little more of that in the high school softball experience than the high school baseball experience.

Because every state has so much autonomy in HS sports and pass that along all the way to the league level, literally anything can happen with how the competition varies. And I don’t know how anyplace else aligns themselves, but around here at least, the league alignment is driven by football, and the league holds true for all the sports. What that does is make for some very strange competition.

So what ends up happening is, the non-league schedules often are much more rigorous than the league schedules. This is only an example, but is true for many of the schools in our division. Last season the teams in our league that we played 3 games each with had a 2013 WPct of .464. The non-league games we played that the coach gets scheduled had a 2013 WPct of .638. So if someone who wasn’t aware of what was going on looked at only stats from our league games because the league was made up of some of the best teams in the state, they wouldn’t really be seeing what our guys did against the best competition.

In the end, I think the recruiters are all looking for the same thing, the best players available they can get. Those people aren’t stupid, or at least shouldn’t be. They know a player who hits a lot of HRs compared to the other hitters is going to do that no matter what the competition is. It’s the same for a pitcher that strikes out a lot of batters compared to the other pitchers. That’s not going to change substantially. So it’s not so much that a player has a BA of .875, but rather that that player’s got a higher BA than 99% of all the other players.

 

[CoogansBluff]

... They know a player who hits a lot of HRs compared to the other hitters is going to do that no matter what the competition is. It’s the same for a pitcher that strikes out a lot of batters compared to the other pitchers. That’s not going to change substantially. So it’s not so much that a player has a BA of .875, but rather that that player’s got a higher BA than 99% of all the other players.

Are you talking about all players in a given conference? Or players statewide? The safest assumptions are made when looking at players on the same team, of course. One guy hits 18 HR. Another hits 2. They're playing against the same teams. You don't have to go out on a limb there. Next safest assumptions are players in the same conference/league/region. But the difference between schedule strength statewide can be profound. You get a team that plays in a baseball-rich state like, say, Georgia, and put him in the state's toughest region and let his team play an aggressive out-of-region schedule, and that player might be doing well to hit .290 w/ 4 HR. He's still be better than some who hit reportedly hit .500 somewhere.

 

[ThompsonUSSSA]

For players, I look at "Stats" similarly to handing out a business card: It lets them know who you are and what you do. Now it's time to give them the rest of the information necessary if you want to establish a relationship. (do business, etc).

I believe stats is 'one' piece of the puzzle when a coach is trying to sort through / evaluate players...
Their is so many players / so much to go through so they can narrow down players that can fit in and help their program.

1) Show me your stats, and I'll get an 'idea' what kind of player you are...power/speed, etc...and I'll know if your successful vs your current competition.
2) Show me your awards - ie "Team MVP", "All League", "All Region", "All State"...and I can figure out how you stand vs the competition you play against.
I can now get a decent idea where you might stand...I should know the difference between a '2nd team all county' player from a softball deficient area in comparison to a "State POY" from a softball powerhouse state...
3) Show me your video: Now you've peaked my interests, I can take the time to sit down and watch your skills, and see if you physically fit what that program is looking for.
4) Now let's see you in live action: Not only to see you perform live, but see your true demeanor when the pressure is on, and get an idea what kind of teammate etc you are in person.

Stats are a quick / easy read "Intro", to the rest of the story about a player. Just my 2 cents...

 

[JAD]

When my DD was being recruited it was from her showing interest in the school (emails and phone calls), her skills video, attending the colleges camps and clinics, and having the college coaches come watch her play. I have never been asked to provide stats to any of the schools that were recruiting her, but several did ask for copies of her high school transcript! Does that count as a stat?

 

[GOINGDEEP]

When my DD was being recruited it was from her showing interest in the school (emails and phone calls), her skills video, attending the colleges camps and clinics, and having the college coaches come watch her play. I have never been asked to provide stats to any of the schools that were recruiting her, but several did ask for copies of her high school transcript! Does that count as a stat?

Every exposure tournament I've seen had the girls wear a tag on their shirt.

Year graduate
Bats ( RH LH )
Throws ( RH LH )
GPA

 

[Scorekeeper]

CoogansBluff,

I’m saying a player who hits 20 HRs in HS hits more HRs than almost anyone and will very likely hit a lot of HRs no matter what the competition is whether it’s on the team or the nation.

I’m also saying that how much the numbers mean is on the recruiter, scout, or whoever’s trying to compare players using the numbers. If a recruiter doesn’t know enough to do a little bit of homework in order to find out how the numbers were generated, s/he shouldn’t have the job. If that person believes .290 hitters against good competition is better than .500 in a weaker environment, it’s in him/her to make that distinction. But the numbers have to be there to get started in the process.

 

[Scorekeeper]

Very nicely said ThompsonUSSSA.

 

[Scorekeeper]

When my DD was being recruited it was from her showing interest in the school (emails and phone calls), her skills video, attending the colleges camps and clinics, and having the college coaches come watch her play. I have never been asked to provide stats to any of the schools that were recruiting her, but several did ask for copies of her high school transcript! Does that count as a stat?

Yes it is a statistic, the same way her age, height, weight, and hair color are. If you believe any college would send the time and money doing all the things you attribute to them without having any idea about her history or abilities, I think you’re very much mistaken.

 

[riseball]

Anyone who really believes a player stats don’t matter in the process of choosing players for higher levels of play is either stupid, extremely ignorant, or most likely simply not thinking the process through. Here’s a question for those who believe the stats are useless in the selection process. How do players get picked if not on their performances on the field?

Now do I believe anyone’s plowing through reams of stats trying to compare players? Not for a second. Not because they wouldn’t if there were one place to get accurate information the way there is for MLB, but because there isn’t, and that’s where the disconnect occurs. There’s really little problem comparing players on the same team because they play the same opponents under the same conditions.

But there aren’t usually more than 2 players at each position to consider, and a higher level team is trying to sift through hundreds of players to consider them for the same position. How could anyone compare a player from a 3,000 student HS in SoCal who plays 150 games a season on a TB team and another 50 with the HS team, with one from a 200 student HS in ND who gets to play a third of that at best? It can’t be done with any degree of accuracy using stats.

But, what stats can do is make people aware that players are doing something exceptional, even if all those exceptional players’ performances aren’t equal. IOW, the process has to start someplace, and that’s how players get identified as exceptional. Once that happens, the process gets more difficult because it comes down to actually seeing the players play and evaluating them using one’s own criteria.

As for the OP, it depends. If the player is only looking to play relatively locally where they’re well known, the stats really don’t do a lot to help. But, if the player lives in NY and is trying to get noticed by a school in La., that’s a different story. How would the coach in La. know a player in NY is a power hitter or truly top notch pitcher? IOW, the situation dictates what goes into the resume`.

You sound pretty full of yourself and impress me as someone who can go on endlessly about what and how things should be. But it is obvious that you lack any real world experience in the college softball recruiting process. Your pontification aside, stats are so far down on the list of what matters in the recruiting process it hardly worth mentioning. From my experience providing stats more often than not hurts the prospect more than it helps.

 

[Scorekeeper]

You sound pretty full of yourself and impress me as someone who can go on endlessly about what and how things should be. But it is obvious that you lack any real world experience in the college softball recruiting process. Your pontification aside, stats are so far down on the list of what matters in the recruiting process it hardly worth mentioning. From my experience providing stats more often than not hurts the prospect more than it helps.

Well, I’m glad you’re impressed, but that aside, I never said stats were all that mattered in the process, but that they do matter, and to what degree they matter is up to whoever is doing the recruiting. Even by your statement they matter, even if not as much as other things, so what is your argument or complaint here? I mean c’mon. “hardly worth mentioning” is nowhere near “meaningless” is it?

Since you want to inject your experience, can you give some real incidents of prospects being hurt because their stats were provided, or is that just your opinion? The more I think about it I have to wonder why any recruiter would possibly consider it a black mark in a prospects chances simply because they were given a player’s stats. Think about that. Assume a really top notch player’s father sends a prospective coach his child’s stats. How stupid would that coach be to throw everything about that player in the dumper? If s/he didn’t want the stats, why not just toss those rather than the player. Seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me.