let's pretend...

[JAD]

After reading through a bunch of threads on the overhand throw I have come to a conclusion... I got lucky! I am currently coaching 12U Travel ball and have a few girls that well... do not throw very well. My DD however, has a great throw hence my comment about being lucky. The more I read the more confused I seem to be on which route to take. So I'd like to know how the big brains on DFP would do it. Let's pretend I'm 5 or 6 years old- how would you teach me how to throw over hand?

I would start on one knee throwing a very short distance where the only thing that is important is learning the proper "over the top" throwing motion. The short distance is important because it allows the player to concentrate on proper mechanics vs. trying to throw the ball farther than they should be. My DD is 16 and her TB team still does this during warm ups. At 5 or 6 you might want to use a tennis ball or a plastic wiffle ball until they learn how to catch.

 

[Greenmonsters]

The size of a softball, even the 11" balls, is not conducive to learning to throw properly IMO. IME, except for windmill pitching, a girl's development and mastering of fundamentals generally will be much faster the longer they play ball with the boys. If I were running a town rec program, I'd give serious consideration to not separating the girls from the boys before age 9 or 10 while starting a fastpitch pitcher training program a year or two before the separation.

 

[PA SB Dad]

The size of a softball, even the 11" balls, is not conducive to learning to throw properly IMO. IME, except for windmill pitching, a girl's development and mastering of fundamentals generally will be much faster the longer they play ball with the boys. If I were running a town rec program, I'd give serious consideration to not separating the girls from the boys before age 9 or 10 while starting a fastpitch pitcher training program a year or two before the separation.

There is no question a smaller ball helps. For our 8U program, we used 10" RIF balls one year, and saw some pretty good results, but alas the purists the following year opted for the 11" balls.

Up through 12U, I do the following:
1. Teach a proper four seam grip (this is key)
2. For the motion, I teach using the saying "down past the thigh, up to the sky, wave bye bye"

After 12U, the players absolutely need to start learning to throw from different arm slots and angles so they can get rid of the ball quickly. To mechanically go through the motion of standing up, bringing the ball up over their shoulder, and releasing the ball takes too long.

 

[marriard]

The size of a softball, even the 11" balls, is not conducive to learning to throw properly IMO. IME, except for windmill pitching, a girl's development and mastering of fundamentals generally will be much faster the longer they play ball with the boys. If I were running a town rec program, I'd give serious consideration to not separating the girls from the boys before age 9 or 10 while starting a fastpitch pitcher training program a year or two before the separation.

Interesting thought however from my experience:

Retention rate for girls in co-ed t-ball: 2%
Retention rate for all-girls division t-ball/all-girls teams: 95%

It is not a bad idea for them to use the smaller ball/play against the boys in t-ball, but don't put them together on the same teams. The majority of them absolutely hate it (yes there will be an exception or two but that will be it).

I have done a fair bit of t-ball coaching. Tennis balls without gloves are a great starting point.

 

[marriard]

Do we really need to TEACH a young kid how to walk or throw or jump?

Having just got back from watching the 18U Gold division at Rising Stars, yes you absolutely do need to TEACH a young kid to throw or jump properly. There were some great mechanics that some players had clearly worked hard on, some naturals who threw hard and then there were... well 'chuckers' might be a kind way to describe some throws.

Some kids are not naturals. Some kids don't know the basics. Most parents certainly don't.

I don't teach a complex motion for t-ballers but I make sure they are going through the right basic footwork and arm positions which can be built on as they get older. If you don't teach them (in a fun way - yes lots of games, but it is teaching) - then they will not change square shoulders/feet, straight arm throw that goes 5 feet (my wife calls it the 'baby food fling' as she says it looks like our kids did when they rejected food in their high chair)

And because sometimes this is the parent throwing with their kid:




I will say one more thing - I can reasonably change a 12U and below throwing motion in a few weeks. By 14U it is a major project to make any major changes to a throwing motion - months of work. As a coach, I had to reteach myself how to throw - did the whole Wasserman throwing course and skills. I played cricket when I was young (in Australia) - wish I had someone teach me how to properly throw when I was 10 - I definitely would have benefited because I clearly had a below average throw then (one of the many reasons basketball became 'my' sport).

 

[Dabears17]

I took my daughter to be evaluated by Austin when visiting NH and he said her overhand motion was fine, she just needs to make adjustments to her footwork.

Agree with 10" ball. Our league is switching to the 10" ball for 6u this year. I was surprised to find out last year the Southern California teams use a 10" ball for 8u. Leagues in my area are still being 'purists' to use the 11" ball in 8u, but I have a feeling 8u will go to a 10" ball in in the next few years.

I've also used the juggs lite flite baseballs and the TCB 'holey' whiffle balls to teach throwing.

PS- Agree with doing/watching. My daughter has been 'watching' softball since she was a few weeks old and is mostly self-taught.

 

[aneasy643]

Wow... a bunch of great ideas and suggestions! This was exactly what I was hoping for. One thing I've learned from coaching is that it doesn't really matter how full your knowledge trunk may seem to be, what matters is your ability to not only understand what but also why then pass it on. Takes a lot of trial and error to find your way sometimes but what has helped me most is honest consideration on all view points then a lil bit of the use my very own brain to make decisions process?. New perspective is an amazing thing if you use it wisely.

 

[aneasy643]

I know if I was to start over again with 5 & 6 yr olds one BIG change I differently would make would be........
Not to use a 11'' or 12'' softball. I would use a tennis ball or a softy baseball. Most younger girls with the small hands are forced to shot put the ball. Give the younger players a ball they can grip.

Absolutely agree with you. With my own dds we started with a tennis ball and then moved on to a 10" indoor ball. I never thought about why I did that till just recently. Truth is it was painful to watch them try to balance a bigger ball and see it continually fly out almost golf swing shank style every time they tried to throw it. 100% confidence killer if ya ask me. If an Itty bitty beginner tells you she can't throw the ball to you, make sure she can actually grip the ball with control she trying to learn to throw with before anything else.

 

[aneasy643]

I still coach the younger ages. From what I see faulty throwing mechanics are almost always attached to bad footwork (at all ages). So I teach it from the ground up. It's a little longer process at first but in the long run it is quicker, and I have found it leads to better throwing mechanics overall. I break it down into segments starting with fielding. If player (especially younger ones) fields the ball with bad footwork I guarantee you their footwork will be off in the throw thereby creating bad mechanics...

I start by having them do the following:
1. Field a stationary ball with feet and body in the proper position.
2. Field a stationary ball by taking two steps into the ball with feet and body in the proper position.
3. Same as above but add additional steps into the stationary ball.
4. Have them field the ball and transition to a throwing motion and freeze (be sure they use proper footwork and posture during the transition)
5. Same as above while actually throwing the ball to a target.
6. After each phase I create a couple of lines and play a game seeing which line can go the fastest and finish first while being reasonably correct mechanically.

As they progress so can you. Progress to batted balls. It is just very difficult to start with batted balls to most young ones. They are to worried about getting hit, and hurt, to focus on mechanics. That is why most acquire bad footwork to begin with in my opinion. They are trying to get away from the ball to protect themselves.

Just my opinion, it works for me..

Love this aapproach. This is my first year coaching travel. Been coaching rec and rec all stars. I'm not new to travel softball I grew up at the ball field. The lack of focus on footwork I am seeing baffles me! Seriously I want to pull my hair out. I cannot understand how something so important is not only skipped over but not even talked about. I don't know how all areas are but where I am it's ridiculous. I expect better from travel teams... what happened?

 

[aneasy643]

When teaching my youngest catchers, I use simple wording. I start with a water bottle drill. Water bottle is half full and kids are in a stance with their feet parallel and facing their target full on. I show them that the water starts at the bottom just like they would be taking the ball out of the glove. Elbow comes straight back at shoulder height. Hand and forearm rotate up and at a little angle to get their hand/bottle ready to drop behind their head and the water moves to the top of the bottle. When the hand/bottle is behind their head, the wrist relaxes and the water bottle will tilt down transferring the water to bottom of the bottle. Shoulders rotate back until they feel tension or tightness in the lower back. Then it's simply push the shoulders around with the lower back muscles and throwing their elbow towards their target. Once the elbow gets just in front/past the nose, the forearm starts in its downward/outward direction towards their target finishing with the wrist snap. Yes, this is an over simplification and it probably won't win the coach of the year award the way I explained it but it seems to get through to them.

Next we transition to tennis balls and throw against the wall to themselves in a stretch and fire exercise. After that I start them working on the lower half in conjunction with what they have learned for the upper half.

I have an old hitting aid that has a spring and you rotate the arm to wind it up. When released, the ball at the end of the arm will start and pick up speed as the spring unwinds. While doing this demonstration, I explain to them that our body is a big spring that needs to be wound up so that we can put some zip behind the thrown ball. That's what they're feeling when they rotate their shoulders in their lower backs on the stretch and fire drill, they're winding the spring. When the spring unwinds, we transfer all of that energy out the end of our arm to the ball just like the hitting aid. The tighter we wind the spring the faster the ball goes.

Now we need to make that happen from a good throwing position. I use terms such as start with the arch of their back foot pointing at the person they're throwing to. Drive the hips just like when they're batting. Feel the way their lower back get tense. See how their chests puff out as they continue to drive the hips (thoracic extension) and once puffed out, go into the throwing motion. Finish with their weight on the front foot. These are a few cues I use but not all of them since not every kid learns the same way. Again, an oversimplification but these are what usually work for me. I'm demonstrating every thing I'm saying at the time also which at that age is a must since IMO, most young kids are quite visual when learning.

As the kids get used to this, they usually find out what actually works best for them and tweak the motion themselves until they find what feels most comfortable to them. That being said, the biggest problem I see in the younger ages is the lack of weight transfer and they're throwing off of their back foot.

Edit to Add: this is the how I teach my catchers and infielders to initially throw. For the outfielders, it is a little different motion since they need the extra power to make it into the IF.

Great stuff here. I dig the visual of the spring- good thinking! One thing I have been trying to do when demonstrating anything I am teaching is to point out the area they should be feeling as well as what it should feel like. I've found it works to tell them where to be strong. Be strong with your big strong muscles it seems to make sense in my mind anyway. And I get great response as well from 12U I'm working with.