Leaving the base early

[EdLovrich]

If the runner is 3/4 the way to 2nd base when you look up you can determine without doubt that either she was shot out of a cannon or she left WAY early.

Agreed, but if she got THAT big a jump one of the two of us will have seen it. The issue is the half-step jump. I cannot and will not guess, I either see it or it didn't happen.

 

[EdLovrich]

your default that she tagged when you didn’t see it?

My default is that no rule was broken if I didn't see a rule being broken.

 

[Bullseye]

Survey says.... "X" Sorry, thank you for playing. If the umpire was not watching, then no call is made and (hopefully) s/he does better next time. The WRONG thing to do is GUESS. No matter how scientific you think your guess might be you don't call what you don't see.

Not to call you out on how you umpire. Dont know you. But that's some bulls-it if you don't recognize umpires make calls they have no angle on and couldn't possibly see the play being made and still making the call.

 

[_MIA_]

Says the water bottle throwing man! LOL

Yeah I wasn’t complaining about a call if you remember correctly. I stopped doing that when I stopped playing..too busy complaining about my kid.

 

[EdLovrich]

Not saying that it doesn't happen, just saying that I do not and will not MSU when it comes to a rules infraction. Are there times when I am out of position for a safe/out or fair foul call? Yes, and THEN you have to give your best judgement based on the info you DO have and hustle to get in better position next time. There is a difference between ruling on a tag that I got straight-lined on (but even then, without some evidence that a tag was made, I HAVE to rule no tag) and ruling that a base was missed, for instance.

 

[PapaBear]

One thing I haven't seen discussed is how we as catchers are put at a disadvantage with runners leaving early. It's one thing if a runner catches the defense (namely catchers) napping. It's one thing when catchers catch the runner napping. It's one thing when the runner takes off and the catcher has the opportunity to get said baserunner. It's completely different when you have runners taking off early. When the pitcher starts her windup until the catcher gets the ball to second, we have at best a second and a half to make the play on the runner. When you have runners...especially speedy runners leaving early, you reduce that time down to roughly a second. That's not enough time to really do anything from a defensive standpoint. Please correct me if I'm off base.

Disadvantage as they get a 3-4 step head start on a bang bang play. Flip the script and have a rule where runners can't run until the catcher catches it, then the runners would be at a disadvantage. Those fast players aren't so fast anymore. No you are not off base, saw a D1 kid recently headed a to a Top 15 school do it multiple times over the weekend that is why I brought it up.

 

[EdLovrich]

I know sometimes exaggeration comes easily. a 3 to 4 step head start is going to be seen at ANY level, especially the NCAA where they are using 3 umpires. The simple explanation is this, people are watching the pitchers, then when the P releases the ball they are glancing over at the runner and lo and behold, the runner is well off the base. Guess what, that is the same thing the umpire is seeing in the 2-umpire system. But you have no idea if they runner was TRULY gone before the release of the pitch. I am not saying that in any one particular case is DIDN'T happen, but would you be willing to bet your reputation and career in your own life on something that you didn't actually see happen?

 

[radness]

I know sometimes exaggeration comes easily. a 3 to 4 step head start is going to be seen at ANY level, especially the NCAA where they are using 3 umpires. The simple explanation is this, people are watching the pitchers, then when the P releases the ball they are glancing over at the runner and lo and behold, the runner is well off the base. Guess what, that is the same thing the umpire is seeing in the 2-umpire system. But you have no idea if they runner was TRULY gone before the release of the pitch. I am not saying that in any one particular case is DIDN'T happen, but would you be willing to bet your reputation and career in your own life on something that you didn't actually see happen?

Hmmm? is that confirmation that one umpire officiating a game will never
(*should never) be able to call a runner out leaving first base early because they will never see it?

Or in your opinion as an Umpire do you think one umpire behind the plate can watch the runner at first and the timing of the pitcher releasing the ball?

 

[EdLovrich]

I agree, that unless it is a very egregious head start that a single umpire should not be able to call a runner out at first for leaving early.

 

[Rick M]

Pick your poison. Do you want the BU watching the pitcher for IP or the baserunner for leaving early.

Depends on whether my team is on offense or defense

I know sometimes exaggeration comes easily. a 3 to 4 step head start is going to be seen at ANY level

This is probably the bottom line. Any lead that would give the runner a huge advantage will most likely be seen. I understand @softgabby point about catchers being at a disadvantage if they lose even half a second, but when the fastest 60 times are close to three seconds, getting ahead by a half second is like 15% of the distance. That’s a big lead.

I like @PapaBear solution of having a loud conversation. C or 1B should call a timeout, meet in the middle, and confer loudly that the runner is leaving early, be ready for a pick. That will either put the breaks on, or maybe even influence the umpire to make an out call on the pick if players handled the situation themselves and he thinks the runner is trying to take advantage of him (or her).


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