Dirty or clean play

[Eric F]

There's a difference between a runner going out of her way "to make intentional and unnecessary contact with a fielder" and this. There is a tag being applied - the runner didn't have to go out of her way, and contact is going to be made whether the runner wills it or not. There is a difference between malicious and this.

Which softball rule is being broken? If it's illegal then it's illegal, but attempting to dislodge the ball is a normal part of the game, IMO - kind of like chin music: one of those unwritten things. I don't teach it, but I get it.

I guess I'm just old.

This isn't about incidental contact. Per the OP, the 8U coach is teaching the players to try to slap the ball out of the defender's glove on a tag play. IMO, this would fall under the "intentional and unnecessary contact" category. Do you think this is an appropriate thing to teach an 8U player?

 

[coachjwb]

Bush league at all levels, and especially bad to teach it at the 8U level when kids are learning what's right and wrong ...

Chances are the coach is new, and is passing on something he or she learned while they were young ... but it was bush league then and is even considered more so now ...

 

[JJsqueeze]

OK- let's slap gloves. Then lets step on the first baseman's ankle in retaliation, then let's start beaning batters and running over catchers. The problem with going this route is the slippery slope. One coach's playing crafty and hard is another coach's dirty. Better to keep the game above board and play with integrity than to fall into this trap of trying to cheat. And yes, it is cheating. If you approve of slapping the first baseman's glove then you better keep your mouth shut when the catcher for that team hip checks the same runner crossing the plate.

 

[marriard]

There's a difference between a runner going out of her way "to make intentional and unnecessary contact with a fielder" and this. There is a tag being applied - the runner didn't have to go out of her way, and contact is going to be made whether the runner wills it or not. There is a difference between malicious and this.

Which softball rule is being broken? If it's illegal then it's illegal, but attempting to dislodge the ball is a normal part of the game, IMO - kind of like chin music: one of those unwritten things. I don't teach it, but I get it.

I guess I'm just old.

If you slap at the glove intentionally you have absolutely intentionally interfered with the fielder. Basically you make a move with the intent to intentionally help dislodge the ball it is clear interference. Batter out, dead ball, runner return to last base at the time of the call.

If the fielder tries to make a tag and the ball comes loose during the tag process - fine - that is how it actually works. You are under no obligation to help with a fielder tagging you but you do it by avoiding the tag or not changing direction or making a specific move at the fielder or their glove in an attempt to dislodge the ball.

 

[chinamigarden]

I wouldn't call it dirty, to me dirty means someone is going to be injured. But I don't like it. Especially at that age group.

People who say its heads up, how many times have you seen an MLB or a college softball player do this? Never, because its not playing the game right.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

This isn't about incidental contact. Per the OP, the 8U coach is teaching the players to try to slap the ball out of the defender's glove on a tag play. IMO, this would fall under the "intentional and unnecessary contact" category. Do you think this is an appropriate thing to teach an 8U player?

I already said I don't teach it, but I don't agree that it's "unnecessary" contact. A tag is defined by contact. And I think I saw this play in the WCWS this year, no call made? Not sure about that.

Look, if I slide into the tag and slap the glove away, is that "unnecessary?" Maybe I'm not understanding what's happening?

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

OK- let's slap gloves. Then lets step on the first baseman's ankle in retaliation, then let's start beaning batters and running over catchers. The problem with going this route is the slippery slope. One coach's playing crafty and hard is another coach's dirty. Better to keep the game above board and play with integrity than to fall into this trap of trying to cheat. And yes, it is cheating. If you approve of slapping the first baseman's glove then you better keep your mouth shut when the catcher for that team hip checks the same runner crossing the plate.

Reductio ad absurdum.

And I'm still waiting to see which rule this violates.

 

[dadofadirtlover]

My DD's first season (last season) was 8U. This same thing was done at the end of season tournament at 3rd base. Ump called the girl out and that was our 2nd out of the inning. I asked HC why she was called out and he looked at me like I'd just told him aliens abducted me. Then, he says "oh snap, you're serious!". He then proceeds to huddle all of the ACs and get a good laugh at my newbie expense. At the very least, I think the coach should be talked to about this. Perhaps it's simply a matter of a parent who doesn't know they are in the gray area.

 

[dadofadirtlover]

My DD's first season (last season) was 8U. This same thing was done at the end of season tournament at 3rd base. Ump called the girl out and that was our 2nd out of the inning. I asked HC why she was called out and he looked at me like I'd just told him aliens abducted me. Then, he says "oh snap, you're serious!". He then proceeds to huddle all of the ACs and get a good laugh at my newbie expense. At the very least, I think the coach should be talked to about this. Perhaps it's simply a matter of a parent who doesn't know they are in the gray area.

I'll also point out that at the 10U evaluations, every coach commented on being glad he was still in 8U and they hate his bush league tactics and a couple went as far as to say they hate his guts. In their minds, he always pushes the envelope and he knows better. He's been coaching for 13 or 14 years. His motto is "Don't like it, make us stop it." I'll never let my DD play for him. The way he gets in little 7 and 8 year old rec players' faces is akin to Gennery Sgt. Hartman.

 

[Rocketech1]

I guess I'm just old.

I guess so.....and probably also an advocate for pitchers retaliating against a batter who hit a home run off of them or for perceived showboating by throwing a fastball at their head.

Intentionally slapping the glove of a player with the ball is a violation of the rules. Period. Let's not encourage this behavior and shame on the coach. The only way to stop this cycle of ignorance is to teach our young players how to play the game the correct way.