barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[fanboi22]

I like that. Says a lot w/o saying a lot. We used to say to not pull the bat/barrel along its length, but I like this visual you've made of it not moving parallel to its length even better.

This is where i think we are missing the distinction. I dont think anyone is saying a parallel pull to the ball is correct. I think the locked wrists (that's what i call it, but truely it is torque the handle to keep the barrel from wrapping - but NO supination) at launch and subsequent torso tilt and turn get the barrel on plane and THEN the hands feel down to and linear. I have tried the Bonds drill to Yelich and feel that is what he was getting at.

I feel there is a hybrid swing in there somewhere.

 

[fanboi22]

Even so, the weight of the bat being concentrated in the barrel, the hands would have to apply a torque to resist the Euler effect and keep the barrel from lagging behind as the torso accelerates rotationally.

I am not denying torque. maybe i should have been clear. There is a torque which keeps the wrists orientated. I do not believe there is supination, or better, pronation to supination as there will be barrel dump. I do believe that there has to be an active force on the handle to keep the barrel from being left behind. So active hands in the sense of keeping the barrel on the TTB path, but it is not an initiated feeling. It is a locked in wrist orientation at launch.

Once the tilt and turn happens and as soon as the tilt is on the correct level plane, the release of the hands from the torso extend to get the final barrel whip. i think that Trout and others never release, i question that. I think it is less adjustable as the amount of force at launch and the holding the hands to the torso doesn't allow the release. IMO.

 

[Shawn]

Really???,

Down to = shortest path to bat to bat lag. 0:00 to 0:12. Then from 0:12 to 0:15 chop chop chop.



If you can't see it fine. Go try it. Post a video of you trying what I just said. Try to pull the knob to the bat lag position directly down to forward (or under), then when the bat is level to the ground and the knob is facing the pitcher chop. Show us how is doesn't work. Tell us what you are going to do and then do it. Prove us wrong by video.

I did that, thinking, I will show them. Of course, to swing down I had to keep my posture almost straight up and zero turn. As soon as I fixed my posture and turned my body to bat lag that same chop turned into hitting missiles. You will know it when you do it. It immediately took guess work out of hitting. Took real complex calculations my brain was doing to hit and made it real simple and direct.

What have you got to lose?, just try it.

I’ll try it, however I don’t see chop, chop in Trout’s swing. I see the same swing I posted of Sosa. Trout is TTB.

 

[Shawn]

Julray,

This is swinging down without cutting or sliding the hands forward like you see in James swing. You still have to answer, How short is too short? and then I’ll answer your question. ?

You don’t swing down and then up. You simply swing around your posture and in the plane of the lead arm. No chop, chop. ?

 

[julray]

You don’t swing down and then up. You simply swing around your posture and in the plane of the lead arm. No chop, chop.

Are you trying to tell me what’s missing from the swing? Honestly Shawn, it’s like trying to piece together a riddle.

Just tell me what you think is missing from the swing... if you don’t know, say so

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I have posted something from Ortiz in a different thread i think. But i will ask you. (and forgive me for using the wrong terms, just know that i am talking dumb) Whatever the final speed at contact, how much of that speed is there halfway thru the swing?

i dont think i care if it is a tip and rip or neck slot. If you are stating that there is early speed, how much is there?

And as a note, playing 30 years of softball, i didn't give two craps about how to describe my swing. Go out and hit it. When they say 'oversnap', i could care less. Most of those beef heads only have a ton of power and no knowledge of the swing. That is where i am at, trying to learn to swing for my DD, because never in softball did it ever matter.

I am just not certain why there can't be an application or torque at launch turning into directional lag/whip. Go back to the Yelich video, he lags and whips. I thought someone said he had an awful swing, but curious if you think it is ok.

If the force is constant then the acceleration is constant and the speed at half the swing is one half of the total speed. The acceleration is over time squared so the distance covered is greater exponentially over time.
So a lag position where the barrel isn't being accelerated rotationally can be costly in terms of where contact happens on the path to the ball. Meaning the lag and snap swing needs to start earlier than one that provides constant acceleration.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I'm not really following you. A force parallel is not what i am talking about. The torso spins around an axis. the hands are the same distance from the torso and spin around with the torso and the wrist barrel orientation being static.

When the hands hold the handle of the bat and apply force away from the center of its mass, the barrel will rotate in the opposite direction.
So as the torso rotates, the barrel will move in a counter direction due to the force applied on the handle. It could be overcome by the hands providing a force equal to the torso rotational force. That seems to be a lot to ask for the hands/arms to overpower the torso/leg force.

 

[Shawn]

Are you trying to tell me what’s missing from the swing? Honestly Shawn, it’s like trying to piece together a riddle.

Just tell me what you think is missing from the swing... if you don’t know, say so

I said everything is missing. Posture, swing plane, lower body, torso. I have no idea what the swing is trying to accomplish. I really don’t care either way.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

This is where i think we are missing the distinction. I dont think anyone is saying a parallel pull to the ball is correct. I think the locked wrists (that's what i call it, but truely it is torque the handle to keep the barrel from wrapping - but NO supination) at launch and subsequent torso tilt and turn get the barrel on plane and THEN the hands feel down to and linear. I have tried the Bonds drill to Yelich and feel that is what he was getting at.

I feel there is a hybrid swing in there somewhere.

Unfortunately, they not only say it, but they show hitters actually demoing the barrel moving down to, linear, and pulling it parallel to its length.

 

[Buttermaker]

if hitters during their game swing are transitioning from PPT to APT NPT then chopping will feel like what they do. The difference is that they transition back to PPT to create power and the barrel gets turned back up.

Some guys drop more than others so you can see it better.

The move from PPT to APT NPT is what I think TDS is talking about when he says you get into both legs. The move back to PPT is the power move and maybe not something that really needs attention IMO. That's just part of the finish somewhat like bat extension after contact.

EDIT - I will modify a bit here and say that just transitioning out of PPT to neutral NPT is probably more than enough for many and it's not needed to go into APT. Then neutral to PPT is the power move. I am not advising to purposely create APT. I changed APT to NPT in the above post.