barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[TDS]

Does that require a lean back before toe touch, or can you maintain that leverage at swing launch? (I am sort of referencing the question i had for Butter) I feel a bit more off balance putting an early backward lean. DD has stated to me that she actively pushed from *edit* front leg as well. So just wanted to see if i try to have her get a lighter toe touch.

I guess I don't feel any lean back if you're referring back to the catcher.. I feel the weight leveraging both legs at the same time as the COM lowers (if thats the correct description)..

I feel it similar to this..

 

[Mudders Brudder]

I posted the softball guys because they use the chop chop or in their words "oversnap" late in the swing. I think it's nearly the same as lag-whip with not much adjustability. It's out front too, they develop their bat speed out front. I think the pro swing, and specifically what Bonds is referring to, as not delaying the application of torque. He swings rearward (video) with great torque getting the barrel accelerating early. No lag or whip. The bat never moves parallel to its length.
That ideal contact position is a strong position with the rear elbow bent.

I like that. Says a lot w/o saying a lot. We used to say to not pull the bat/barrel along its length, but I like this visual you've made of it not moving parallel to its length even better.

 

[TDS]

Then why does the back leg become unweighted? There's definitely a forward shift of momentum to the front leg. ...can't have weight on a rear leg that's not on the ground.
Turning the pelvis requires the legs to apply offset force against the plane of the pelvis. I realize that hip musculature can do this but I see the extension of the front leg pushing rearward against the front side of the pelvis propelling the back side of the pelvis forward, dragging the rear leg with it .......rotation.
That move, quad contraction so the knee extends and the glute/hamstring contraction so the hip extends, as a much more powerful force to apply rotation to the pelvis.
Just sayin'.

I try to maintain being stacked through out the positive move towards the pitcher..

 

[julray]

You've frustrated the heck out of me but your constant resistance made me think. I try to understand why someone would be so adamant in a belief in spite of video evidence to the contrary. I've seen you change your opinions some and so I worked to understand your view point.
I've seen the Bonds videos ,chop chop, the ARod videos, chop chop, etc and sought to understand in the course of video evidence, physics, and feel v real. I've come to a deeper understanding of their approach and incorporate it into my experience. All so I can be a better coach and player and a more understanding person whose not on the asshole list.
I know I don't have all of the answers, but I have more answers today than I did yesterday. I think we can learn from each other.

Sounds good ? FYI I’m still on the asso list

 

[julray]

Julray

lol, what is missing from that swing? Anything that resembles a real swing. If it’s a drill that is one thing, still missing everything.

It’s not a drill. Again what is missing from that swing? Saying everything is missing tells me nothing about about what you believe is missing. I answered your question, Why the hesitation?

 

[TDS]

 

[fanboi22]

So the force is directed parallel to the bat while holding this 90° hand to handle relationship with no push/ pull? No torque applied?

What if the torque is applied but instead of the bat moving in relation to the hands, the turn of the core keeps the bat/hand relationship intact and allows the torque to be applied over a greater distance?
To clarify, a similar linear move would have you pushing a mass with your hands/arms, never extending the arms, but instead moving your legs to follow the mass as it is propelled forward, still keeping the muscles of the arms flexed and guiding the force.

I'm not really following you. A force parallel is not what i am talking about. The torso spins around an axis. the hands are the same distance from the torso and spin around with the torso and the wrist barrel orientation being static.

 

[fanboi22]

I posted the softball guys because they use the chop chop or in their words "oversnap" late in the swing. I think it's nearly the same as lag-whip with not much adjustability. It's out front too, they develop their bat speed out front. I think the pro swing, and specifically what Bonds is referring to, as not delaying the application of torque. He swings rearward (video) with great torque getting the barrel accelerating early. No lag or whip. The bat never moves parallel to its length.
That ideal contact position is a strong position with the rear elbow bent.

I have posted something from Ortiz in a different thread i think. But i will ask you. (and forgive me for using the wrong terms, just know that i am talking dumb) Whatever the final speed at contact, how much of that speed is there halfway thru the swing?

i dont think i care if it is a tip and rip or neck slot. If you are stating that there is early speed, how much is there?

And as a note, playing 30 years of softball, i didn't give two craps about how to describe my swing. Go out and hit it. When they say 'oversnap', i could care less. Most of those beef heads only have a ton of power and no knowledge of the swing. That is where i am at, trying to learn to swing for my DD, because never in softball did it ever matter.

I am just not certain why there can't be an application or torque at launch turning into directional lag/whip. Go back to the Yelich video, he lags and whips. I thought someone said he had an awful swing, but curious if you think it is ok.

 

[fanboi22]

I guess I don't feel any lean back if you're referring back to the catcher.. I feel the weight leveraging both legs at the same time as the COM lowers (if thats the correct description)..

I feel it similar to this..

I would say he is a phenomenal athlete and not a swing to replicate. That being said, i get your comment. Is there a lot of successful swings that you think look similar to this?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I'm not really following you. A force parallel is not what i am talking about. The torso spins around an axis. the hands are the same distance from the torso and spin around with the torso and the wrist barrel orientation being static.

Even so, the weight of the bat being concentrated in the barrel, the hands would have to apply a torque to resist the Euler effect and keep the barrel from lagging behind as the torso accelerates rotationally.