barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[fanboi22]

The goal is to leverage both legs without the weight shifting to the front leg.

Does that require a lean back before toe touch, or can you maintain that leverage at swing launch? (I am sort of referencing the question i had for Butter) I feel a bit more off balance putting an early backward lean. DD has stated to me that she actively pushed from *edit* front leg as well. So just wanted to see if i try to have her get a lighter toe touch.

 

[julray]

I know, you're just looking for validation and hope I'll parrot your beliefs.
So how's this?
This position looks good to me.
View attachment 17583

What is with you? I’m asking for your f@&$in thoughts, your opinion, not mine. If you don’t have one , fine. Great instruction .... coach

 

[BigSkyHi]

The lower body is committed to every pitch. I think the decision to STOP swinging is made at toe touch or slightly before. Core rotation puts the front heel down and commits to swinging.

I must agree. It's a timing thing when the ball is about half way to you. It's fun to watch Rachel Garcia take a pitch when she's locked in.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

The goal is to leverage both legs without the weight shifting to the front leg.

Then why does the back leg become unweighted? There's definitely a forward shift of momentum to the front leg. ...can't have weight on a rear leg that's not on the ground.
Turning the pelvis requires the legs to apply offset force against the plane of the pelvis. I realize that hip musculature can do this but I see the extension of the front leg pushing rearward against the front side of the pelvis propelling the back side of the pelvis forward, dragging the rear leg with it .......rotation.
That move, quad contraction so the knee extends and the glute/hamstring contraction so the hip extends, as a much more powerful force to apply rotation to the pelvis.
Just sayin'.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

What is with you? I’m asking for your f@&$in thoughts, your opinion, not mine. If you don’t have one , fine. Great instruction .... coach

You didnt expect me to agree with you? You really don't want me to write another essay, do you? So I just copied and pasted. What's wrong with that? Did I get the point across?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

i subscribe to the fact that there is release and extension and whip of the barrel. But if you watch these softball guys, it is so rotational and a lot of casting, IMO. Get as much of that speed as possible because that lobbed in ball isn't doing any tricks.

So to your comment on hitting down, i don't feel the 'hitting down' until the hands are released from the torso. To me there is a rigid perpendicular angle of the barrel to the hand that is kept thru torso turn and tilt getting on plane. Rocking the 'U'. I don't see a pronation then supination of top wrist. if you watch the angle of the barrel to forearm, i see it staying at 90 degrees. ish. That angle is held until after the torso turns gets the barrel on plane with whatever supination is needed to get the rest of the way, then the 'loose and oily' wrists are let go to whip the barrel to contact.

This is why i have asked questions about ideal contact position, as i believe it is better a little farther out from body with the whip and not a locked rear elbow still at 90 degrees. I think Mud had some good thoughts on that contact position.

So the force is directed parallel to the bat while holding this 90° hand to handle relationship with no push/ pull? No torque applied?

What if the torque is applied but instead of the bat moving in relation to the hands, the turn of the core keeps the bat/hand relationship intact and allows the torque to be applied over a greater distance?
To clarify, a similar linear move would have you pushing a mass with your hands/arms, never extending the arms, but instead moving your legs to follow the mass as it is propelled forward, still keeping the muscles of the arms flexed and guiding the force.

 

[julray]

You didnt expect me to agree with you? You really don't want me to write another essay, do you? So I just copied and pasted. What's wrong with that? Did I get the point across?

I don’t read “asso”, so I must of misunderstood. Some people in this forum are so afraid of being wrong that they can’t express their point of view, impossible to have a conversation with. Instead they’d prefer to bury the conversation or question being asked in pages and pages of nonsense instead of facing the music. I’m not saying that’s you, but I’m just giving you a heads up in case you come across somebody like that.

I’m not a coach or instructor, what I believe or prove means nothing to anybody, but I am just curious by nature and of course I love the game.

 

[Shawn]

Julray

lol, what is missing from that swing? Anything that resembles a real swing. If it’s a drill that is one thing, still missing everything.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

i subscribe to the fact that there is release and extension and whip of the barrel. But if you watch these softball guys, it is so rotational and a lot of casting, IMO. Get as much of that speed as possible because that lobbed in ball isn't doing any tricks.

So to your comment on hitting down, i don't feel the 'hitting down' until the hands are released from the torso. To me there is a rigid perpendicular angle of the barrel to the hand that is kept thru torso turn and tilt getting on plane. Rocking the 'U'. I don't see a pronation then supination of top wrist. if you watch the angle of the barrel to forearm, i see it staying at 90 degrees. ish. That angle is held until after the torso turns gets the barrel on plane with whatever supination is needed to get the rest of the way, then the 'loose and oily' wrists are let go to whip the barrel to contact.

This is why i have asked questions about ideal contact position, as i believe it is better a little farther out from body with the whip and not a locked rear elbow still at 90 degrees. I think Mud had some good thoughts on that contact position.

I posted the softball guys because they use the chop chop or in their words "oversnap" late in the swing. I think it's nearly the same as lag-whip with not much adjustability. It's out front too, they develop their bat speed out front. I think the pro swing, and specifically what Bonds is referring to, as not delaying the application of torque. He swings rearward (video) with great torque getting the barrel accelerating early. No lag or whip. The bat never moves parallel to its length.
That ideal contact position is a strong position with the rear elbow bent.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I don’t read “asso”, so I must of misunderstood. Some people in this forum are so afraid of being wrong that they can’t express their point of view, impossible to have a conversation with. Instead they’d prefer to bury the conversation or question being asked in pages and pages of nonsense instead of facing the music. I’m not saying that’s you, but I’m just giving you a heads up in case you come across somebody like that.

I’m not a coach or instructor, what I believe or prove means nothing to anybody, but I am just curious by nature and of course I love the game.

You've frustrated the heck out of me but your constant resistance made me think. I try to understand why someone would be so adamant in a belief in spite of video evidence to the contrary. I've seen you change your opinions some and so I worked to understand your view point.
I've seen the Bonds videos ,chop chop, the ARod videos, chop chop, etc and sought to understand in the course of video evidence, physics, and feel v real. I've come to a deeper understanding of their approach and incorporate it into my experience. All so I can be a better coach and player and a more understanding person whose not on the asshole list.
I know I don't have all of the answers, but I have more answers today than I did yesterday. I think we can learn from each other.