barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Shawn]

What is missing from that swing?

Julray,

First James is saying that swinging down and a short swing corrected a loop in his/daughters swing. I agree there is a downward element to the initiation of the swing. Although how do I know he didn’t just correct bat drag, looping, with pushing the hands? Pushing the hands and being short to the ball works. Is it the only way to look at the swing? No.

 

[Buttermaker]

Yep, do you use the same, or something else when you talk about "the first one better be aimed correctly"?

The lead side needs to be right. And when that domino falls it needs to be aimed correctly. IMO rear leg/hip is in more of a supporting role. It is the stage for the main act.

 

[Work=wins]

Nobody can say you are not thorough, . No thoughts on the sequence or body positioning?

good point. Muscles work differently when loaded in different orders. ROM changes drastically when loaded in different positions.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Directed to all. What is the batter's position when they make the decision to take or swing?

When they decide to swing is dependent on pitch recognition and not batting position or movement. If they're an Astro they decide when they hear the trash can being banged on. Other guys decide when the pitch is on the way and they think they know where it's going. Could be early, could be later. Not at all relative to where they are in their movement.

 

[julray]

Julray,

First James is saying that swinging down and a short swing corrected a loop in his/daughters swing. I agree there is a downward element to the initiation of the swing. Although how do I know he didn’t just correct bat drag, looping, with pushing the hands? Pushing the hands and being short to the ball works. Is it the
only way to look at the swing? No.

Sorry Shawn, I just asked a simple question, I am wondering what you think is missing from James swing?

 

[Buttermaker]

I tend to think of Doug Latta as the biggest advocate for 50-50 launch and this video below as a good example. It is also 100% the opposite of swing your foot down approach, one-legged stretch and fire drills, etc. It's confusing and wrong-headed (to me) but fascinating.

I still get stuck on the idea that BOTH extremes claim Bonds as their swing model yet come at it with instructional approaches that are completely opposite.

I'm not clear on why 50/50 but I saw another video of his where bottom hand swings (taps he called them) are done with the hands swinging down near the belt line to keep the lead shoulder out of the equation. I like that, but I'm sure for the same reasons that Latta likes it

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Nobody can say you are not thorough, . No thoughts on the sequence or body positioning?

Whatever gets the job done.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

The lead side needs to be right. And when that domino falls it needs to be aimed correctly. IMO rear leg/hip is in more of a supporting role. It is the stage for the main act.

Since Latta was brought up...how does what he says here....


...apply to what you're stating above? Also, does that sound like any of the drills I've talked about in the past...(pssst, 4x4 )?

 

[fanboi22]

@julray, I'm strictly looking at the force vectors needed to create the swing that the pros do on game day with a pitch in the air.
Physics says to rotate the bat, apply a force perpendicular to the length of the bat away from the center of mass. The most efficient way to create acceleration is to keep that force at that 90 degree angle to the bat length throughout the bat's rotation. So I see the left hand's (bats right) force vectors (direction) on the handle of the bat starting from a leftward tipped bat position (toward the pitcher) as these vectors relative to the batter:
1) downward causing the barrel to rise
2) leftward causing the barrel to move to the right
3) upward causing the barrel to rotate downward
4) backward causing the barrel to rotate forward
The batter moves in space and so the forward and rearward directions relative to home plate would be different.

What's missing? The correct path through space to the ball.
I believe that when the hands (or the body of a player connected to the hands when the hands are rigidly held) move in space, they move the bat. Those movements (forces) act on the bat and the bat moves accordingly.
If we're looking only at the path the bat takes through space, the pro demo is incorrect and the "DiCarlo" demo is more like the actual bat path, although more pronounced....the Nike Swooosh.
If we look only at the hand movements relative to the hitter, the pro demo path is only correct in the first part where they move their hands opposite one another to torque the bat....the handle torquing to create the chop. I don't see the pros moving their hands across their body, right to left and then getting to an extended locked out back arm position at contact during game swings.

I do think the feel of creating max torque is real and the pros do feel that in their swing. The chopping down movement creates that max torquing feel from go and it is definitely down.
If I isolate my hand movement to recreate that feel, what I find is my right hand (bats right) moves away from my right shoulder in a way similar pounding my fist on a table top located at my right hip.
Meanwhile, my left arm is moving to the left as though I were trying to elbow you in the chin as you stand shoulder to shoulder with me, at my left.
The two motions combine and my hands don't actually move very far in either direction because they are connected to the handle of the bat. Instead, they they create a shearing force on the handle (push-pull) a torque, and the bat rotates, the barrel moving to my right. Then the barrel circles downward around my hands pivot point, bottoming out, and continuing its circular path to my left and upward.
If immediately after chopping to the right, I forcefully rotate my body CCW the force on the handle is then back and to the right of my original stance, so the barrel moves opposite the force and rotates into the path of the ball.
If I lean more backward as I rotate (hip extension), the handle is pulled upward and the barrel accelerates downward, bottoming out and then proceeding on an upward path. If I do it right, the barrel path will match the pitch path and we do damage.
The red arrows are the force vectors:
View attachment 17576

To me this is incorrect and maybe the point of confusion. I dont think pros use a chop chop motion to start. I think they hold tight and not allow the bat to get left behind causing the 'Turn' in ttb, and then when on plane direct the barrel to chop chop at the ball. No chop chop to start.

 

[fanboi22]

I'm not clear on why 50/50 but I saw another video of his where bottom hand swings (taps he called them) are done with the hands swinging down near the belt line to keep the lead shoulder out of the equation. I like that, but I'm sure for the same reasons that Latta likes it

I feel 50/50 on the move out but at toe touch a push back and a contributing upper body lean to push back to 60/40 ish. I like balanced out but swing and keep more power over back.