barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Buttermaker]

Mud, I feel it more like domino's falling. Gotta get the first one to fall before you can think about the second one falling and the first one better be aimed correctly...

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Good to know...
IYO, what do you believe is missing from that swing?
Do you believe this is how the pros believe they are swinging when demoing their "down to" approach?

@julray, I'm strictly looking at the force vectors needed to create the swing that the pros do on game day with a pitch in the air.
Physics says to rotate the bat, apply a force perpendicular to the length of the bat away from the center of mass. The most efficient way to create acceleration is to keep that force at that 90 degree angle to the bat length throughout the bat's rotation. So I see the left hand's (bats right) force vectors (direction) on the handle of the bat starting from a leftward tipped bat position (toward the pitcher) as these vectors relative to the batter:
1) downward causing the barrel to rise
2) leftward causing the barrel to move to the right
3) upward causing the barrel to rotate downward
4) backward causing the barrel to rotate forward
The batter moves in space and so the forward and rearward directions relative to home plate would be different.

What's missing? The correct path through space to the ball.
I believe that when the hands (or the body of a player connected to the hands when the hands are rigidly held) move in space, they move the bat. Those movements (forces) act on the bat and the bat moves accordingly.
If we're looking only at the path the bat takes through space, the pro demo is incorrect and the "DiCarlo" demo is more like the actual bat path, although more pronounced....the Nike Swooosh.
If we look only at the hand movements relative to the hitter, the pro demo path is only correct in the first part where they move their hands opposite one another to torque the bat....the handle torquing to create the chop. I don't see the pros moving their hands across their body, right to left and then getting to an extended locked out back arm position at contact during game swings.

I do think the feel of creating max torque is real and the pros do feel that in their swing. The chopping down movement creates that max torquing feel from go and it is definitely down.
If I isolate my hand movement to recreate that feel, what I find is my right hand (bats right) moves away from my right shoulder in a way similar pounding my fist on a table top located at my right hip.
Meanwhile, my left arm is moving to the left as though I were trying to elbow you in the chin as you stand shoulder to shoulder with me, at my left.
The two motions combine and my hands don't actually move very far in either direction because they are connected to the handle of the bat. Instead, they they create a shearing force on the handle (push-pull) a torque, and the bat rotates, the barrel moving to my right. Then the barrel circles downward around my hands pivot point, bottoming out, and continuing its circular path to my left and upward.
If immediately after chopping to the right, I forcefully rotate my body CCW the force on the handle is then back and to the right of my original stance, so the barrel moves opposite the force and rotates into the path of the ball.
If I lean more backward as I rotate (hip extension), the handle is pulled upward and the barrel accelerates downward, bottoming out and then proceeding on an upward path. If I do it right, the barrel path will match the pitch path and we do damage.
The red arrows are the force vectors:

 

[julray]

So again, another great example of how he's again nowhere near the position he thinks or feels he's in when getting to his "separation" or "FYB" leveraged position (of power).
View attachment 17573 View attachment 17574

Above is not a great representation of JD in FYB position.. JMHO



JD talks a lot about creating stretch .. obviously he's taking a day off in the previous post during hitting practice..lol.. or maybe it was stilled a couple frames short to try to prove a point. Again the isolated move on the far left is exaggerated .. just like when he demos that movement in his interviews.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Mud, I feel it more like domino's falling. Gotta get the first one to fall before you can think about the second one falling and the first one better be aimed correctly...

Yes, the sequence of one following the other correctly is important. What is it that you use to "be aimed correctly"...and do you remember what I talk about using as being the "aimer" (if that's a word...lol)?

 

[Buttermaker]

Yes, the sequence of one following the other correctly is important. What is it that you use to "be aimed correctly"? Do you remember what I talk about using as the "aimer" (if that's a word...lol)?

If I remember correctly you use the rear hip as the aimer?

 

[julray]

Julray,

That would be pushing and trying to be too short, yes, this is one example,

What is missing from that swing?

 

[Mudders Brudder]

If I remember correctly you use the rear hip as the aimer?

Yep, do you use the same, or something else when you talk about "the first one better be aimed correctly"?

 

[RichK]

I tend to think of Doug Latta as the biggest advocate for 50-50 launch and this video below as a good example. It is also 100% the opposite of swing your foot down approach, one-legged stretch and fire drills, etc. It's confusing and wrong-headed (to me) but fascinating.

I still get stuck on the idea that BOTH extremes claim Bonds as their swing model yet come at it with instructional approaches that are completely opposite.

 

[julray]

@julray, I'm strictly looking at the force vectors needed to create the swing that the pros do on game day with a pitch in the air.
Physics says to rotate the bat, apply a force perpendicular to the length of the bat away from the center of mass. The most efficient way to create acceleration is to keep that force at that 90 degree angle to the bat length throughout the bat's rotation. So I see the left hand's (bats right) force vectors (direction) on the handle of the bat starting from a leftward tipped bat position (toward the pitcher) as these vectors relative to the batter:
1) downward causing the barrel to rise
2) leftward causing the barrel to move to the right
3) upward causing the barrel to rotate downward
4) backward causing the barrel to rotate forward
The batter moves in space and so the forward and rearward directions relative to home plate would be different.

What's missing? The correct path through space to the ball.
I believe that when the hands (or the body of a player connected to the hands when the hands are rigidly held) move in space, they move the bat. Those movements (forces) act on the bat and the bat moves accordingly.
If we're looking only at the path the bat takes through space, the pro demo is incorrect and the "DiCarlo" demo is more like the actual bat path, although more pronounced....the Nike Swooosh.
If we look only at the hand movements relative to the hitter, the pro demo path is only correct in the first part where they move their hands opposite one another to torque the bat....the handle torquing to create the chop. I don't see the pros moving their hands across their body, right to left and then getting to an extended locked out back arm position at contact during game swings.

I do think the feel of creating max torque is real and the pros do feel that in their swing. The chopping down movement creates that max torquing feel from go and it is definitely down.
If I isolate my hand movement to recreate that feel, what I find is my right hand (bats right) moves away from my right shoulder in a way similar pounding my fist on a table top located at my right hip.
Meanwhile, my left arm is moving to the left as though I were trying to elbow you in the chin as you stand shoulder to shoulder with me, at my left.
The two motions combine and my hands don't actually move very far in either direction because they are connected to the handle of the bat. Instead, they they create a shearing force on the handle (push-pull) a torque, and the bat rotates, the barrel moving to my right. Then the barrel circles downward around my hands pivot point, bottoming out, and continuing its circular path to my left and upward.
If immediately after chopping to the right, I forcefully rotate my body CCW the force on the handle is then back and to the right of my original stance, so the barrel moves opposite the force and rotates into the path of the ball.
If I lean more backward as I rotate (hip extension), the handle is pulled upward and the barrel accelerates downward, bottoming out and then proceeding on an upward path. If I do it right, the barrel path will match the pitch path and we do damage.
Force vectors:
View attachment 17576

Nobody can say you are not thorough, . No thoughts on the sequence or body positioning?

 

[julray]

I tend to think of Doug Latta as the biggest advocate for 50-50 launch and this video below as a good example. It is also 100% the opposite of swing your foot down approach, one-legged stretch and fire drills, etc. It's confusing and wrong-headed (to me) but fascinating.

I still get stuck on the idea that BOTH extremes claim Bonds as their swing model yet come at it with instructional approaches that are completely opposite.

Yikes, the hitter is ABAF.. so this drill is a wreck anyway