18U ASA nationals a better level of play than 16U ASA nationals? Then by how much?

[RubberBiscuit]

Would love to get all your opinions on this question that always seems to be in debate amongst my little circles.

 

[ms244]

I can't give you any feedback on the ASA 16u/18u debate but I watched the 14u, 16u and 18u PGF championship games and I was a little surprised. For one, the pitching speeds between 16 and 18 were the same. Heck even the pitching speed between the 14u and 16u were close. The batting looked about the same between 16 and 18, and the fielding was marginally better in the 18u division. Not sure how PGF stacks up with ASA, but there wasn't much difference between 16 & 18 for PGF.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Ya I will jump to my position on this -

I have seen pretty much the same thing as you ms244.

I think the combination of the further reduction in players as they get older, and the peaking of skills moving earlier & earlier, that 16u & 18U is pretty much interchangeable.

Now if you are seeing similarities down to 14U,.....wow,....things are even getting further homogenized in the wake of my older DD.....

 

[JAD]

Not an expert on the subject, but I would bet that the top 16 teams would be very competitive against most 18U teams. Are you distinguishing between 18U A and 18U Gold? It seems that the top players go play gold, so the A-teams are probably missing out on a lot of good pitchers and STUD fielders and bats.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Not an expert on the subject, but I would bet that the top 16 teams would be very competitive against most 18U teams. Are you distinguishing between 18U A and 18U Gold? It seems that the top players go play gold, so the A-teams are probably missing out on a lot of good pitchers and STUD fielders and bats.

That's true - there would be this skimming effect from the gold group. But wouldn't there be a skimming effect on 16U also? (18U pulling form 16U)??

 

[JAD]

Now that a lot of D1 recruiting has moved to 16U there are more players staying with their 16U team vs. "playing up". In the past I think a lot of the 16U STUDS would play 18U if they could.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Now that a lot of D1 recruiting has moved to 16U there are more players staying with their 16U team vs. "playing up". In the past I think a lot of the 16U STUDS would play 18U if they could.

Ya good one - that's another good angle on this...

In contrast though, and maybe this might something from my region, many TB clubs are run by "old-school" sb leaders that still believe that the cream of the club MUST rise to and play 18U. (18U team pulls from all 14/16/18 players in the club)

Anyways - don't want to overanalyze this but I was VERY curious how this community see's the balance of power in the age groups.

 

[SCDad]

I think many of the 18U Gold players are already signed. Not much motivation to travel cross country, and try to win a Championship.

Many of the 16U players have yet to be signed, and make their mark among almost all the college scouts at these 16U championships.

I know several 18U Gold players (not mine), already signed, who just as soon play 18U Gold showcases, and not spend the money traveling all over the place. 18U is paired down for this reason. Many great 18U's just stay away while doing their own thing and still playing local to get ready for college.

 

[slingnit]

IMO. Size, strength, speed, and the rest have matured by 15 or 16 but the length that they have been playing at and against that level is where the difference starts to show, for the most part. But THE top 16 and top 18's a slight edge to the 18's. You start getting the teams that just qualify 16u Gold or Premier compared to the 18u that do the same, I think you will see more of a gap. You get down to the local level, well it is what it is. And that all changes in the different regions of the country as well. Generally speaking the best ball is played in 3 or 4 states. Some of the 16's in those states are as good if not better than the best 18's in others. They play so much ball, have nicer weather, and the number of kids that play.... 16u are really drawing the coaches, especially PGF, Boulder, Fireworks, and the big showcases. The recruiting is starting so early and the girls have physically mature so the coaches pretty much know what they are getting. And like SC Dad said, some 18's are taking it easier with less travel. I do know a lot, especially the top notch schools like for their commits to play competitive thru graduation. They want them sharp and playing very good competition. Premier, Colorado, and ASA(although dropping) are great for that. They are showcases but are tournament style, so they are actually playing for something. Like everything else on here it is opinion and you know what they say about opinions!

 

[SCDad]

It really comes down to MONEY. If signed and know where you are going, why spend extra money to travel all over the place. Your softball "goal" is already accomplished. Times are tough for everyone these days. Sometimes the coaches (many who get paid) have difficulty understanding, when their prized players all of a sudden say "no thanks" we don't really want to buy a plane ticket, and spend a week in hotels if it has no benefit.

It it is not selfish in any way by the players, in my opinion. Just business ... of which many top org's pretend as though they do not understand ... but really do know all too well.