Why all the angst?

[JoeKC]

I guess my point is that I don't want players worrying about there stats. There are enough distractions that they don't need to be thinking about improving there stats, they need to be working on improving there game.

Most of these kinds of questions I get are not stat related, but they are questions about what they need to do to get more playing time or move up in the order. I can tell both the player and parent what they need to do to improve there game without numbers.

When my girls are scouted and I get calls from college coaches, they never ask what there OBP is or the Batting Avg.
The questions are: Is she coachable? Is she a team player? Does she follow the team rules? Is she a leader? How does she play after commiting an error?
None of these things relate to any of the stats I keep.
And belive me, my girls always know what the "score" is within there team.

No disagreement, with one possible exception. I do want them to own every aspect of their game including their stats. That being said, they should not be dwelling on, or "worrying" about anything other than getting better every day. To do that they need all possible tools to manage their game.

 

[PA SB Dad]

Not sure I understand this. Let's say a parent comes to me and wants to know why DD is batting 7th. I point out that she ranks 9th on the team in OPS, 8th in batting average, 7th in on-base PCT, etc. What is dishonest or soft about that? I'd love for a coach to explain to me as a parent his decisions and how he uses stats as a tool. Whether I agreed or not, I'd appreciate him opening up about how he makes decisions.

As far as trusting own eyes, I think coaches owe it to their players to study stats to make sure that what they think they're seeing is accurate. I've had parents and other coaches in the dugout question the batting order only to be surprised that that one girl is hitting .425 and the other is hitting .225. If it's weak and dishonest to use stats, what do you tell a player who is batting 7th despite leading the team in hitting?

I have to admit, I have never had a parent come up to me and ask me why their kid is batting whatever, and why their kid isn't playing whatever. Maybe this is because I have not been coaching long enough, though I've coached at various levels for the past 7 years including 5 years of TB.

Why is little Suzie batting 7th? Actually, little Suzie batted seventh this game, but batted ninth last game, and batted 2nd the game before that. Why did she spend the entire game in the outfield? Actually, she played second base the game before that, and split time between third and the outfield the game before that. I suppose I'm not being asked the question because I treat 12U and 14U as developmental years, and I still expect kids to be able to play multiple positions. I don't have a batting order written in stone, (though my 3 and 4 hitters are generally the same), and I want my players to be able to play multiple positions. I get buy in from the parents and the players that we mix up the batting order and they play different positions from time to time in pool games since the goal is to develop all of my players and get them all contributing to the team. They understand that on Sundays, the best nine play, and the others will get opportunities to play and contribute. So far I have not had any complaints, and not had anyone leave mid-season because of playing time. We are playing an A schedule this year, so we'll see if this approach continues to work when the expectations are higher.

 

[PA SB Dad]

All of our stats are available to any parent that asks for them or wants to see them. No point in hiding them as everyone watching knows who went o -fer with 3ks and who hit the snot out of the ball. My point about the coaches using the "eye test" was that even with the stats, he knows when a girl hit 4 hard line drive outs and who hit 3 dribblers that got through. In a late game RBI situation you want the girl with the better chance of a hard hit somewhere green. Everyone watching usually knows who that is.

This post made me smile. As anyone who has played teams from South Jersey (or the entire state) would know, most of the parents there are not objective when it comes to the softball fortunes of their own kid. Not everyone watching knows who the best kids on the team are!

 

[Jdaddy]

When my DD tried out for our current TB team two years ago, the HC said to all of the parents who had girls trying out, "travel ball is not fair. I will do my best to make your daughter the best player that I can. However, I will do what I believe is best for the team. Just because your daughter has always played SS and batted 4th, does not mean she will play SS and bat 4th here. I will give the girls every opportunity to earn playing time at their preferred positions, but they will learn at least two positions and play where they will help the team the most."

We now have a 2nd year 12 U team full of one time pitchers, catchers and shortstops. Everyone has bought in to the team first concept and understands no one person owns any position on the field, or spot in the batting lineup.

If you have a coach who lays out how the team will run from the start and does a good job as HC, parents have no reason to discuss stats or how he/she handles the team. Maybe not the only way, bu it works for our team.

 

[CoogansBluff]

I have to admit, I have never had a parent come up to me and ask me why their kid is batting whatever, and why their kid isn't playing whatever. Maybe this is because I have not been coaching long enough, though I've coached at various levels for the past 7 years including 5 years of TB.

Why is little Suzie batting 7th? Actually, little Suzie batted seventh this game, but batted ninth last game, and batted 2nd the game before that. Why did she spend the entire game in the outfield? Actually, she played second base the game before that, and split time between third and the outfield the game before that. I suppose I'm not being asked the question because I treat 12U and 14U as developmental years, and I still expect kids to be able to play multiple positions. I don't have a batting order written in stone, (though my 3 and 4 hitters are generally the same), and I want my players to be able to play multiple positions. I get buy in from the parents and the players that we mix up the batting order and they play different positions from time to time in pool games since the goal is to develop all of my players and get them all contributing to the team. They understand that on Sundays, the best nine play, and the others will get opportunities to play and contribute. So far I have not had any complaints, and not had anyone leave mid-season because of playing time. We are playing an A schedule this year, so we'll see if this approach continues to work when the expectations are higher.

All this is good. But my previous post was a response to this statement -- If you have to rely on stats as a coach to defend your decisions regarding playing time, then you are not willing to have the honest, tough conversation with a parent about little Suzie or don't trust your own eyes.

If no one on your team has ever asked you to explain any playing time or batting order questions, that's great. But what if someone did? That is the question. If my daughter didn't get to bat on Sunday on your team and I politely asked why, what would you say? Why would it be wrong to rely on stats to explain it?

 

[PA SB Dad]

If no one on your team has ever asked you to explain any playing time or batting order questions, that's great. But what if someone did? That is the question. If my daughter didn't get to bat on Sunday on your team and I politely asked why, what would you say? Why would it be wrong to rely on stats to explain it?

I could have any number of reasons. They know I only bat 9 on Sundays, and do not use an EP, though I will use DP/Flex when I think it is useful, so they know up front some kids will not start in the line up. Here are some of the reasons why Suzie might not bat:
1. I explain I need courtesy runners for my pitchers/catchers so that I can save them energy for later games, and little Suzie is someone I rely on to run the bases well for me.
2. I want to keep a good bunter on the bench in case I need someone to bunt who I can depend on.
3. Suzie is not be one of the best 9 fielders, and I need to have my best 9 on the field.
4. Suzie struck out multiple times yesterday, and is my weakest hitter - I agree this is based on stats, but I don't like to overwhelm anyone with numbers.

I do get every player into every game on Sunday, even if it means they are a pinch or courtesy runner, a defensive replacement, or pinch hitter. I try to frame it as giving the player opportunities where I think they can best contribute in situations where our goal is to win the game, and provide feedback to the player and parents how she can earn a bigger role on Sundays.

 

[Scorekeeper]

I guess my point is that I don't want players worrying about there stats. There are enough distractions that they don't need to be thinking about improving there stats, they need to be working on improving there game.

I’ve heard that many many times over the years, but I’ve still never met even 1 player who was so intent on stats that their game suffered. IOW, I honestly think it’s a boogyman under the bed that’s used to scare people or avoid having to deal with something they aren’t comfortable discussing for some reason.

That doesn’t mean a player won’t allow striking out or giving up a hit to cause some kind of emotional reaction during the game. Heck, the very best players of all time do that. Its how long the player allows it to affect them. Ideally it will be forgotten immediately, but we all know that’s never gonna happen. The best anyone can hope for is that it affect them as little as possible.

Most of these kinds of questions I get are not stat related, but they are questions about what they need to do to get more playing time or move up in the order. I can tell both the player and parent what they need to do to improve there game without numbers.

But how do you prove to someone like me who wants proof? Tell me its none of my business and that its your way or the highway? I’m not saying you can’t do what you say. I’m saying there are ways to show people how you’ve come to the conclusion you did.

When my girls are scouted and I get calls from college coaches, they never ask what there OBP is or the Batting Avg.
The questions are: Is she coachable? Is she a team player? Does she follow the team rules? Is she a leader? How does she play after commiting an error?
None of these things relate to any of the stats I keep.
And belive me, my girls always know what the "score" is within there team.

Of course scouts aren’t going to ask questions about stats. They know if they do, many will start padding the numbers because its human nature to want one’s charges to succeed.

 

[Scorekeeper]

All of our stats are available to any parent that asks for them or wants to see them. No point in hiding them as everyone watching knows who went o -fer with 3ks and who hit the snot out of the ball. My point about the coaches using the "eye test" was that even with the stats, he knows when a girl hit 4 hard line drive outs and who hit 3 dribblers that got through. In a late game RBI situation you want the girl with the better chance of a hard hit somewhere green. Everyone watching usually knows who that is.

No argument with your logic, but it shows why many coaches give so much weight to QAB’s.

But tell me something. When you say In a late game RBI situation you want the girl with the better chance of a hard hit somewhere green, are you talking about choosing a pinch hitter? I’m assuming you are because once the order’s set, you can’t move players around depending on the situation.

 

[Scorekeeper]

I could have any number of reasons. They know I only bat 9 on Sundays, and do not use an EP, though I will use DP/Flex when I think it is useful, so they know up front some kids will not start in the line up. Here are some of the reasons why Suzie might not bat: ...

So why would it be so wrong to use stats to support your position?

 

[Sliced Bread]

I’ve heard that many many times over the years, but I’ve still never met even 1 player who was so intent on stats that their game suffered. IOW, I honestly think it’s a boogyman under the bed that’s used to scare people or avoid having to deal with something they aren’t comfortable discussing for some reason.

That doesn’t mean a player won’t allow striking out or giving up a hit to cause some kind of emotional reaction during the game. Heck, the very best players of all time do that. Its how long the player allows it to affect them. Ideally it will be forgotten immediately, but we all know that’s never gonna happen. The best anyone can hope for is that it affect them as little as possible.



But how do you prove to someone like me who wants proof? Tell me its none of my business and that its your way or the highway? I’m not saying you can’t do what you say. I’m saying there are ways to show people how you’ve come to the conclusion you did.



Of course scouts aren’t going to ask questions about stats. They know if they do, many will start padding the numbers because its human nature to want one’s charges to succeed.

As you ribbon cut my responses, you left out the important one:

If you need to speak with me privately about your DD, I am happy to dicuss any or all things related to you DD, not stats as it relates to game stratagies.