What would you do?

[NVfishing]

Hillhouse is demonstrating. I'd like to see some of his pitching full speed and then in slow motion. I've noticed he has a crow hop but it doesn't get called in the men's game.

 

[Rocketech1]

Clearly, the slow motion video of Amanda pitching shows the elbow planted at the hip and the forearm and wrist rotating farther away from the body than the elbow. Textbook IR, but technically illegal in all fastpitch governing bodies rulebooks....excellent observation 1fingerknuckler, I just hope to god that we don't have a rash of IPs now being called for using IR?
softball pitching machine in slow motion

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

That picture of the girl that showed the side view, some one asked if there were more views// it shows here in pull down mode, how ever it does not show where the hand finishes, or where the release , you can't judge a book by it's cover on that one, if the photographer has a multitude of sop action frames following that one, the also should be show, not a picture to draw a conclusion on.
As i have said it before here, if you have any pitching knowledge, stand up start your windmill, hand to 12, start the pull down, if you are going to create the whip as Hillhouse does, tuck your elbow to you side, continue your pull down look down and see what your elbow and wrist are doing, if you have never pitched it may be difficult to get the point... It's extremely different than just using words out of paper.

 

[MTR]

Since that is the rule, then the only legal pitch would be one where the elbow would be locked by necessity. Any bend in the elbow would by definition bring the elbow into closer proximation to the body than the wrist. Therefore, all I/R pitches are technically illegal.

Am I misinterpreting the rule as written?

Well, Bubba, it is the rule. Softball, all disciplines seem to have become a game where the participants do what they please and then complain when the rules don't change to accommodate them.

I'll ask this again, has anyone ever considered that what you believe to be the proper way to pitch ISN'T how the game was meant to be played based upon the rules?

 

[Greenmonsters]

Well, Bubba, it is the rule. Softball, all disciplines seem to have become a game where the participants do what they please and then complain when the rules don't change to accommodate them.

I'll ask this again, has anyone ever considered that what you believe to be the proper way to pitch ISN'T how the game was meant to be played based upon the rules?

Sometimes change is necessary, and even good. Lacrosse was originally played with the decapitated head of an enemy.

 

[WaSpeed02]

Well, Bubba, it is the rule.

Yeah, it's Mr. Bubba to you. Your condescending comment aside, I assume you are in favor of every pitcher locking their elbow upon through release. That is the rule as written.

Softball, all disciplines seem to have become a game where the participants do what they please and then complain when the rules don't change to accommodate them.

I'm not necessarily advocating for a change in the rules. However, when a rule is written, I am a believer in enforcement of the rule as written. All the time, every time. How many millions of I/R pitches do you think are thrown on a given weekend yet no IP's are called? Less than .0000001% are called, I'm sure. So what's the point of having the rule? Don't talk down to us like we're a bunch of morons who don't give a damn about the rules. All I'm saying is enforce the rule or get rid of it.

I'll ask this again, has anyone ever considered that what you believe to be the proper way to pitch ISN'T how the game was meant to be played based upon the rules?

Enforce the rules. Restore the game back to its purest roots, according to the rules. I'm all for it. But if not, then amend the rule so that it actually legalizes the method that is being used day in and day out in fastpitch games all over the world.

 

[P&C Dad]

Just to be clear, I am a novice when it comes to pitching. Reading the rules from the various organizations, is it possible to interpret the wording in another way?

Is it possible that "the wrist not farther than the elbow" refers to that the wrist can not be farther out at release than the distance to your elbow - if you lift your arm up (out) to create a 90 degree angle with the rest of your body? This distance is approximately the length of your humerus bone.

If I pitch HE style, lock my elbow and release the ball with my palm facing the catcher, my wrist is always outside of my elbow - as is Bill Hillhouse's wrist, when he was demonstrating HE at 2:30 into the video that knuckler posted. If i rotate my wrist and forearm counter-clockwise and I release the ball with the top of my hand facing the catcher, my wrist is inside of my elbow. This is the only way I am physically able to pitch with my wrist inside of my elbow. I don't know if this is the same for other people?

It seems as if in the Hillhouse video, when he pitches in his style (IR), his wrist is outside the elbow, but within the distance of the length of his humerus bone from his body.

I may be off-base, but if the rule was interpreted that you couldn't physically have the wrist outside the elbow, virtually every pitch, HE or IR, would be illegal. If it is interpreted as I mentioned above, the vast majority of pitches would be legal, unless your elbow was way out, creating an almost sidearm pitch.

I hope this made sense.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

If the ball is to be released at some point here and in full live motion this may be so fast for the eye "maybe to detect", what would it be called?

 

[Lance Charger]

One fingers photo of Kenosha delivering a pitch is typical of all her pitches in the game. Only the follow through varies. Beware Florida, Texas and others. This happened in Wis. but we all share the same rule book. Over 200 crow-hops in tourney, non called, Over 100 lane violations in tourney, non called. These are easy (crowd friendly) calls to make, but non called. Kenosha seemed to get I/P call after one of her animated follow through. This same ump called three games of this same pitcher in last two years, NO I/P CALLED. The real ump that called these I/Ps was a couple guys called anger and envy..........Stay tuned

 

[David Carter]

One fingers photo of Kenosha delivering a pitch is typical of all her pitches in the game. Only the follow through varies. Beware Florida, Texas and others. This happened in Wis. but we all share the same rule book. Over 200 crow-hops in tourney, non called, Over 100 lane violations in tourney, non called. These are easy (crowd friendly) calls to make, but non called. Kenosha seemed to get I/P call after one of her animated follow through. This same ump called three games of this same pitcher in last two years, NO I/P CALLED. The real ump that called these I/Ps was a couple guys called anger and envy..........Stay tuned

and this is what I suspected all along, some one some where had an agenda plain and simple. My biggest concern is getting any kind of consensus on whether or not she is actually legal. With the big blowup several years ago in the CWS I don't think ANYONE argued that the pitchers were legal only that it had not been called all year; while that might seem unfair the ruling is still just because during that CWS the pitchers were in fact illegal, I just don't know if that is the case here.