What would you do?

[1fingeredknuckler]

In the NCAA, the coaches run the show and the rules. However, evolution is not always a good thing.

At some point there must have been a reason for the rule to be worded the way it is. The question is why.

As noted before, at one point (1936) the restriction was that the BALL not be more than 6" from the BODY (leg).

If we could figure out why it was changed, we could probably figure out what the purpose of the rule other than to keep the pitch underhand.

And if the coaches do run the show jn the NCAA ,they better start wearing blUe and gray or the appropriate attire


I still have yet to see some one pitch over hand, but i can't be in all the parks at the same time, And i still have not had any one show me that this pitch is nit in a vertical line going forward any different than Bill Hillhouse teaches

 

[smddad]

I don't know about anyone else, but it's physically impossible for my DD to pitch with a peel drop style of release and comply with this rule. She has about a 8-10° deflection on her forearm. When she rotates her wrist inwards so that the thumb is pointing to the body, the wrist now complies with the rule. The flip change also complies.

I have also tried it and I cannot physically get my wrist closer to my body than my elbow when using a peel drop style release.

I understand the intent of the rule. The intent of what they want is not what is written. I had a pitcher called for this 6-7 years ago and went to the state representative for the NSA. He and the state UIC watched her pitched and said she was within the intent of the rule and both said she was legal.

 

[MTR]

And if the coaches do run the show jn the NCAA ,they better start wearing blUe and gray or the appropriate attire

Why? Do you have the impression that umpires make the rules? Well, Bubba, if you do, you are dead wrong. The umpires have minimal input in changing rules and when they do, the must still get past all the non-umpire representatives. Don't know about the other associations, but in ASA, out of the 250-300 available votes at the General Council meeting, the umpire community is represented by a total of 15.

I still have yet to see some one pitch over hand, but i can't be in all the parks at the same time,

Then you haven't seen the SP game in City Park in NOLA where they do pitch overhand. But you have gone to the extreme like that's a shock, as no one is suggesting the issue is throwing overhand.

And i still have not had any one show me that this pitch is nit in a vertical line going forward any different than Bill Hillhouse teaches

Don't care what Bill Hillhouse teaches, he is not the rule book. And it has nothing to do with the rule in question as has been pointed out previously

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Why? Do you have the impression that umpires make the rules? Well, Bubba, if you do, you are dead wrong. The umpires have minimal input in changing rules and when they do, the must still get past all the non-umpire representatives. Don't know about the other associations, but in ASA, out of the 250-300 available votes at the General Council meeting, the umpire community is represented by a total of 15.



Then you haven't seen the SP game in City Park in NOLA where they do pitch overhand. But you have gone to the extreme like that's a shock, as no one is suggesting the issue is throwing overhand.



Don't care what Bill Hillhouse teaches, he is not the rule book. And it has nothing to do with the rule in question as has been pointed out previously

not worth a response

 

[C.K]

Our school played you in Chilton when you knocked us out when you got your state bid, I had plenty of photos but deleted them a couple weeks ago. I told the AC between the first and second inning to talk to the umps about IP's don't know if they did, but in my honest opinion I thought she pitching side arm. It wouldn't have mattered you can't win game with 8 errors, Congrats on the season.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Our school played you in Chilton when you knocked us out when you got your state bid, I had plenty of photos but deleted them a couple weeks ago. I told the AC between the first and second inning to talk to the umps about IP's don't know if they did, but in my honest opinion I thought she pitching side arm. It wouldn't have mattered you can't win game with 8 errors, Congrats on the season.

If you are referring to ME, I HAVE NO AFFILIATION with either school.. My point has been the interpretation of the rule and the MESS THE WIAA AND NFHS made of this..If the Blue can't see it without some whiners, getting walked on??????????

I have the very first call on video others have seen it, see NO IP, others have determined the rule is rarely called unless BLATANTLY VIOLATED, so apparently WIAA and NFHS decided it was and instructed Blue.

Others say they can't pitch in todays standards the way the rule is worded and the physical make up of ones arm. wrist and elbow, please re read the previous 10 or so pages.

Since then there has been participation in STATE ASA tournaments and no IP calls.

AND FINALLY I HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH EITHER SCHOOL

 

[David Carter]

A lot of great discussion guys, but like One-Finger first asked, "what would you do"? The Kenosha Coach is asking for advise. He knows the gold ball is locked in someone else trophy case but he wants to move forward. He's got 8 starters back and will prob. be the pre-season No. 1. in D-3. The W.I.A..A. is avoiding his ADs request for clarity on the rule. He does not want a repeat of 2013 in 2014. I told him to file a post game protest and go public with it.This would show support for his pitcher and bolster his claim that she is legal. The W.I.A.A., I think would have to sit down and talk to him. He would love to hear any good ideas that are out there. Help him out!

I would continue press the W.I.A.A. for answers, if that fails he need to go up the chain to his principal and district superintendent. Usually when these political types gets involved they know the right people to get the ball rolling, I think the biggest thing in his favor is telling them he is not looking to be right, he just need a clarification on exactly what the rule is and how it is going to be enforced.

Maybe show these examples of our Team USA pitcher and see if these are OK.

 

[C.K]

Sorry I thought you were the coach.
I did read the hole thing. Its a abnormal pitching motion to say the least in fact I have never seen any other girl throw like it before in the last 5 years of travel ball, does it give her a advantage other than a delivery mast batters haven't seen?. I wouldn't call them whiners because they brought it up to the higher ups. I'm sure they scouted her, got video and took the rule book to prove their point at the meeting. Obviously they agreed and instructed the umps to call it. What are the umps to say, I'm not going to call a IP.?

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Sorry I thought you were the coach.
I did read the hole thing. Its a abnormal pitching motion to say the least in fact I have never seen any other girl throw like it before in the last 5 years of travel ball, does it give her a advantage other than a delivery mast batters haven't seen?. I wouldn't call them whiners because they brought it up to the higher ups. I'm sure they scouted her, got video and took the rule book to prove their point at the meeting. Obviously they agreed and instructed the umps to call it. What are the umps to say, I'm not going to call a IP.?

That's my point you "thought" and did not "think" or read the "whole" segment,

If you adhere to "grand stand officiating", that is far from quality officiating, and that is a part of this discussion, and as others have now realized your "ARM WRIS AND ELBOW " DOES NOT OR WILL NOT WORK WITH THE WRITTEN RULE
, but isn't it strange that we have to bring this to their attention and yours.

Pitching Clinic Part 1 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube

Pitching Clinic Part 2 - Bill Hillhouse - YouTube

As per pitchers advantage over hitters on pitching styles, be a rather plain jane game if they all had the same motion wouldn't it?

Pitchers disrupt hitters timing/// Hitters disrupt pitchers timing

But when you are getting destroyed week after week what degree will one go to ?

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Look, you can say the rule is out-dated or that everyone pitches with the wrist out, but that pitcher is so illegal and so out of the norm, the Kenosha coach is not going to get a reprieve. If she were like Hillhouse, etc. then the coach would have an argument. If he uses video or pics, it will make his case worse. No matter what the rule will be ever, she still won't be legal.

I am reposting the pictures of her to make it clear how bad her mechanics are. The coach should focus on her changing her motion rather than an appeal.

Visual Image Photography | Kenosha St Josephs vs Mineral Point | WISBG_13_F3158

Visual Image Photography | Kenosha St Josephs vs Mineral Point | WISBG_13_F3158

===================================

The problem you have with these photos, is frame 158 shows the start of pull down, FRAME 159 jumps to throwing across the front of the body,, there is nothing ILLEGAL about that,, there is no sidearm here as this is not the definition of sidearm,, you find more frames in between these 2 and then cast your judgement, you can't base it on these 2.

As per David Carter's post//

So you are agreeing that as as per Cat Osterman and all they are all as illegal as dirt?

There is no such thing as "you can;t have it both ways

Would you like to see the video of the 1st call?