What would you do?

[1fingeredknuckler]

How sad that this game turned out this way. Hopefully, the school's AD will ask to meet with these officials that decided to tell the umpires to call something in the championship game, that wasn't called all year.

This caught my eye, from the article - Each time an illegal pitch is called, any runners on base automatically advance 90 feet

I assume the beat writer got mixed up in the game they were writing about.

My concern on this is is this style legal ,if not why not, there is going to have to be a clarification as to why their full schedule went by with this not detected if it should gave been
.
I had never seen this team until i saw the stream on the net. Since then i have had the opportunity to see the first call made and reviewed it several times, and i don't see the issue.

In a preceding game there were 2 pitchers , opposite each other, neither one came set for the required time. The ball started at the hip, hands never came together, they both did it the entire game, neither were called.

Another girl was running the 3 foot line, 1st bm was in the line taking a popup, the runner tucked her arms to her mid section and ran right through the girlr, sending her over backwards, out was made but no call on flagrant contact, no warning, no ejection

Needless to say if you want to see something strange go to a ball game.

If this call was so obvious to some and not others on the so called IP why was there not an explanation, if you'll notice the sidearm photo of the great UCLA saver,

The softball world needs an explanation on this , by those involved

not just Discuss Fast pitch, thank you

 

[Comp]

I have posted all these videos before on another thread. This is directly from FED which the subject game was being played under.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Definition is illegal pitch, wrist outside the elbow,, i will be posting an image by a well know person, out of their books for sale, they are teaching this, given to me today by an official, a coach and you make the call. It will be later this evening.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I agree with this, but not with pointing out the "one" umpire. Did you ever notice how this always comes up at the end of a tournament? Could it be that the issue isn't the time of the game, but the level and qualifications of umpire assigned those games?

Good point MTR.

Another I'd like to share is, would that team have made it to the championship without the help of an illegal pitcher along the way?

Who said they don't? I know the showcases and scrimmages I work, the coaches know in advance.

I'm sure you've been around fastpitch longer than I, ( 12 years now ) but in those years I've never seen ( in my coach's packet ) or been told verbally, "we are not calling IP's". And we've played from OK-FL KY-TX and all inbetween.

The problem with the NCAA is that the game is coach-controlled from rules to control of umpires. As we saw in the IP debacle, after the season, the umpire supervisor was dismissed and her staff resigned in protest. And the number of IP called in the playoff was reduced, so when you did see one, it was probably obvious.

I found this article, which was interesting. Illegal-pitch calls frustrate teams | timesfreepress.com

"I definitely think the illegal-pitch calls drastically affected Brooke's senior season," Reed said. "It's hard to take a pitcher who's been taught one way and then ask her to change. Muscle memory just takes over."

Basically he's saying, "she's been taught illegally, and they now want her to pitch legal".

Cameron Schuh, the NCAA's associate director for public and media relations, said via e-mail that the increased emphasis on illegal pitches this year resulted from concerns raised after the 2009 World Series. She said the increased enforcement was to "raise the level of integrity, fairness, accuracy and consistency by improving umpire education in order to enforce the rules established for the game without excuses or misunderstandings."

Coaches at the WCWS have complained that the calls are being made inconsistently, and pitchers aren't able to prepare if they don't know when they will be called for an illegal pitch.

I believe the last sentence says it all. I wish we would make a SOLID move one way or the other. I can tell you personally why it frustrates me. I taught my DD to pitch, I made sure she was legal as did my father did teaching me to pitch in BB. When I see a pitcher illegal and getting away with it, I feel I did my DD a dis-credit by not letting her gain an advantage with illegal deliveries.


Side note: I did umpire ONE SEASON after college ( BB ), I can testify its much easier playing than umpiring. Fans/coaches are nuts, and I said "to heck with this".

 

[MTR]

This is side arm

Which is why I suggested the term be dropped in the discussion involving the rule violation. There is no "rule" that mentions "side arm".

The term is relative to the limited vocabulary of the softball world. Even the video the Federation produced uses the term because that is what people understand. Just like incorrectly using the term "mound", or those who refer to a "slide-by" as a hook slide, etc.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Which is why I suggested the term be dropped in the discussion involving the rule violation. There is no "rule" that mentions "side arm".

The term is relative to the limited vocabulary of the softball world. Even the video the Federation produced uses the term because that is what people understand. Just like incorrectly using the term "mound", or those who refer to a "slide-by" as a hook slide, etc.

There were so many other situations in this tournament "they will be ones remembered for awhile who gave the game"

You are correct,, if they are going to center on 1 team , and all the other infractions by others were ignored, i hope the people who did the hiring are satisfied.

I am not connected with either but when i see an injustice, i will respond

 

[MTR]

Good point MTR.

Another I'd like to share is, would that team have made it to the championship without the help of an illegal pitcher along the way?



I'm sure you've been around fastpitch longer than I, ( 12 years now ) but in those years I've never seen ( in my coach's packet ) or been told verbally, "we are not calling IP's". And we've played from OK-FL KY-TX and all inbetween.



I found this article, which was interesting. Illegal-pitch calls frustrate teams | timesfreepress.com

"I definitely think the illegal-pitch calls drastically affected Brooke's senior season," Reed said. "It's hard to take a pitcher who's been taught one way and then ask her to change. Muscle memory just takes over."

Basically he's saying, "she's been taught illegally, and they now want her to pitch legal".

Cameron Schuh, the NCAA's associate director for public and media relations, said via e-mail that the increased emphasis on illegal pitches this year resulted from concerns raised after the 2009 World Series. She said the increased enforcement was to "raise the level of integrity, fairness, accuracy and consistency by improving umpire education in order to enforce the rules established for the game without excuses or misunderstandings."

Coaches at the WCWS have complained that the calls are being made inconsistently, and pitchers aren't able to prepare if they don't know when they will be called for an illegal pitch.

I believe the last sentence says it all. I wish we would make a SOLID move one way or the other. I can tell you personally why it frustrates me. I taught my DD to pitch, I made sure she was legal as did my father did teaching me to pitch in BB. When I see a pitcher illegal and getting away with it, I feel I did my DD a dis-credit by not letting her gain an advantage with illegal deliveries.

The sad part is that this pretty much tells you that the coaches know damn well their pitchers are illegal and just don't care. They could fix it. Reminds me of the line from the movie "Trouble with the Curve" where the owner of the team is flustered about his recent #1 pick not being able to hit the curve, "He knows it's coming and he still cannot hit it". They know it is going to happen, but rather wait on the umpire to pull the trigger so they can lay the blame at someone else's feet and then lie about it to the press. IMO, those coaches' attitude should be considered an insult to the integrity of the game.

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

This was given to me today by an official and an instructor , he wears 2 hats but of course at different times, i do not own this material it as is as was given to me, if it's correct it appears there is a double standard in teaching and interpretation or game use?

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[marriard]

This was given to me today by an official and an instructor , he wears 2 hats but of course at different times, i do not own this material it as is as was given to me, if it's correct it appears there is a double standard in teaching and interpretation or game use?

Not really. Sidearm illegal is released from the basically hip height (or worse), away from the body and with a very bent elbow (to allow for the release at the hip). Your image is still near the thigh and the elbow while bent in not bent excessively.

Live side-arm pitches looks almost like a submarine pitcher in baseball and the ball always moves across the plate. The video Comp shows is pretty distinctive and I have seen worse just this year (the girl no longer pitches because she just can't correct it).

 

[1fingeredknuckler]

Not really. Sidearm illegal is released from the basically hip height (or worse), away from the body and with a very bent elbow (to allow for the release at the hip). Your image is still near the thigh and the elbow while bent in not bent excessively.

Live side-arm pitches looks almost like a submarine pitcher in baseball and the ball always moves across the plate. The video Comp shows is pretty distinctive and I have seen worse just this year (the girl no longer pitches because she just can't correct it).

someone in a few recent posts said "side arm is irrelevant does not exist" how ever if your wrist is out side your elbow, it's an illegal pitch, game over. call em or forget em