Topspin Vs Bulletspin, Which is Faster?

[RubberBiscuit]

1st question: HOW do you get a kid who has BULLET SPIN converted to RISEBALL or 6/12 spin?

I am NOT one of the big-time PC's here but just a dad of a big-time bullet-spinner that developed into a big-time riseballer.

Not knowing what age and ability level you are referring to I will just make this first general comment:
For the RB DD's PC had her adopt a specific grip then run through new drills visualizing, then doing, the weight-back-shoot-under-the-ball-release method that produces the right spin.

I will be catching for DD tonight. If ya want she & I can retrace the more detailed evolutionary steps and report back if ya like..?

 

[pumpkinbear]

I will be catching for DD tonight. If ya want she & I can retrace the more detailed evolutionary steps and report back if ya like..?

Yeah, I'd like!

 

[riseball]

...1st question: HOW do you get a kid who has BULLET SPIN converted to RISEBALL or 6/12 spin?...

Fastpitch Softball Movement Pitches Part 1 - BIll Hillhouse - YouTube

Recommend watching the whole video or fast forward to 9:00 for the meat. I used the double-ball with my pitchers and it works very well.

 

[ArmWhip]

2nd: what is the most difficult criteria for a hitter to read: speed, change of speed, movement or location - or maybe even a combination thereof?

As far as I'm concerned a pitcher should learn location, change of speed, movement, in that order. As the level of play rises she needs to get better at all of them but the order remains the same.

 

[greg99]

I also have read this whole thread too. I do need to re-read some of the latest post from pobguy a few more times though. Anyways, My main question is should you change a "bullet spinner" to a top spin fastball?

RubberBiscut, does your DD still throw a bullet on her fastball? What about her Drop, does she trhow one?

Thanks

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Yeah, I'd like!

Sorry - I failed - I WILL get this detail and post it. Funny though,... After I caught DD last night, as I was coming back from putting the base & pitching mat away, DD was just finishing up giving a detailed riseball tutorial to a couple of the younger pitchers at the open-gym.

So it's fresh in her head - I just gotta corner her tonight.

 

[pobguy]

I am not sure where would be the best place to post this, but I'll try here. I have added a section onto my physics of baseball web site devoted to fastpitch softball: Fastpitch Softball. For now, I have just two links posted there, both related to analysis of pitches from the 2011 WCWS. One is to the slides I already mentioned earlier. The other is to a paper written by Caitlin Krebs. Caitlin is an undergraduate physics major at Drury University and a pitcher on the Drury team. She worked with me last summer as a research student as part of our Research Experience as an Undergraduate (REU) program at U. of Illinois. She wrote up a very nice paper on her analysis of the PITCHf/x data that we had, including identification (based on speed and movement) of each pitch. She wrote a very nice paper and I highly recommend it to you.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I also have read this whole thread too. I do need to re-read some of the latest post from pobguy a few more times though. Anyways, My main question is should you change a "bullet spinner" to a top spin fastball?

RubberBiscut, does your DD still throw a bullet on her fastball? What about her Drop, does she trhow one?

Thanks

I think you leave the bullet fb and eventually develop a new drop. Subtle but meaningful difference here I think. IF she is a young good hard bullet-spinner I would not recommend throwing away what could be a great baseline for that elusive REAL riseball (not just the up-trajectory fastball).

Here is the pitch progression I would suggest to a young strong bullet-spinner:
1. FB
2. CU
3. Rise (have this be the first "extra" pitch that this girl gets into her head as I believe if she is meant to be a riseballer learning this pitch first will establish her notoriety/confidence to propell her further)
4. Drop - I think this could/should be the last pitch this pitcher needs to learn (being the up/down, ....challenge the swing plane the most, ...fanatic that I am)

My DD will throw a bullet-ish fb still. Ideally it's not being called by our coaches too much (hear that TB coaches!?!) but it is the same fb it was when she was 10yrs old. (For HS this bullet-spin fastball, all by itself, works really well still. I still contend, with all the drop-ball fastballers out there, a fastball that does not drop as much does take at least an at-bat to dial in - for the average high-schooler. Of course it does help that she is throwing 60's.....)

Now let me be clear - sometimes just before mastering the riseball - there may be a time where your DD might be on a 14U TB-A team and she might lay a bullet-spin fb right out there over the middle of the plate - and you might see the longest home-run you have ever seen off a pitch (versus the drop spin pitchers) - but stay the course. A REAL riseball is a thing to behold and I believe is the most challenging pitch to hit at the highest levels.

 

[greg99]

Thank you RubberBiscut. My DD went from a Top Spin fast ball ball/drop ball to a bullet fastball pitcher. It happened in the past few months whenshe started getting the corect spin on her rise ball more and more. Is this a common occurence?
She can still get Topspin if she slows down to about 80%. She starts to crank up the speed and here comes the bullet spin.
I'm not sure what direction to go with her fastball/dropball....


Thanks Again

 

[RubberBiscuit]

My DD went from a Top Spin fast ball ball/drop ball to a bullet fastball pitcher. It happened in the past few months whenshe started getting the corect spin on her rise ball more and more. Is this a common occurence?

What you are describing is different from my DD's case. My DD never had a fb with topspin so she didn't have the opportunity to lose it learning the rb.

I will tell ya one more relative thing about my DD - the hardest pitch BY FAR - for her to learn was the roll-over drop. I just think that spin is just so foreign to her and all her years not doing anything like it. Last year she had the roll-over breaking extremely well but it was her most inaccurate pitch.

This year, post DD's big recovery from her back injuries, we are probably NOT going to come back with the roll-over BUT rather DD will have two speeds of the peel. She has got this motion/release down from her current cu (a palmed peel) and all we will do is move the ball out on the fingers a bit. (looking for that 5-7mph difference)