Too many or Too few??

[Momo'sDad]

The only issue I really have these days is that ASA is essentially cannibalizing its own mid-sized rec leagues and even some of the larger leagues with the creation of their new "select" team program. Let the parents who want their kids in TB do that and let the rec programs exist for the true rec player.

There have always been teams that only have 4-5 strong players plus supporting cast and today's climate is really no different in that regard.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Somewhere along the way, someone figured out there was a ton of money to be made outside the high school arena. When I was growing up in a city of 800,000 people, there were only 3 real travel baseball teams. Tryouts were as long as 2 weeks with 100's of entries. Because of the small demand in numbers, those 3 teams were able to be super strong from top to bottom. Always had replacements available, as the waiting list was a mile long.

Now in that same city, you can't turn around without tripping over a travel team, you can't drive 3 blocks without passing a ball field. Where 30 years ago there were 2 tournament complexes local, and you really had to travel ( hours away ) when those complexes didn't host an event. It's not like today where events are held almost year round.

As an example, our town of 5500 has 3 baseball teams that "travel" and 3 softball teams that "travel", and I use that term loosely. There are 13 ball fields here. So even in a small town like this, you've watered down the team by spreading out the talent. Now imagine a large metro city.

So to me it's not the lack of players, it's the fact that the concept has changed. Growing up there were really only about 3 classifications. Church leagues were big, recreation leagues even bigger, and travel ball was very small. 2 things changed that, money and parents. Church and rec leagues generally don't "make" money for their efforts, they make enough to cover the costs and perhaps save some for facility upgrades/maintenance. Travel ball always made good money, when events were available. Also the team numbers in events were much lower than today. I remember getting excited about 20 whole teams entered in the state/national tournament in my teens, now same event will have 100 or more, hotels within an hour drive booked months ahead.

Then the parental role started turning. When John's feelings got hurt that he didn't make those 3 travel teams, mom and pop decided "we will just start our own". And when Tim didn't make that mom and pop team, his parents started their own.............and on and on and on. Now those teams going against the 3 true travel teams ( and true travel teams nationally ), they got slaughtered. Complaints started about "unfairness" and the need for the mom/pop teams to have their own tournaments. Because being able to say "I play travel ball", was though of as an elite status...........even if you weren't so elite. The BOOM of youth classifications began, like the adult leagues.

About that time is when the lights turned on for many of our national organizations ( USSSA, etc ). More teams, with more choices of playing level, meant mo mo mo money. World Series and national events that were once only held for AA/AAA/Major teams now were holding similar events for single A/B/C classes.

Basically most kids are still playing recreation ball, but it's not called that anymore. It's "travel ball" with a spin. We just put them in these nice neat folders of 5 classifications to play in..................in order to keep the travel ball mentality.

I have nothing against daddy ball, I was one myself. But please don't call yourself a travel team if you never leave your state.

 

[redbirdone]

Basically most kids are still playing recreation ball, but it's not called that anymore. It's "travel ball" with a spin. We just put them in these nice neat folders of 5 classifications to play in..................in order to keep the travel ball mentality.

And mom and dad and Suzie Superstar love to wear that travel team logo all over town and post those travel team uniform pics all over facebook.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

And mom and dad and Suzie Superstar love to wear that travel team logo all over town and post those travel team uniform pics all over facebook.

Heck I'm guilty of that myself. lol

 

[MNDad]

The problem I see in my area right now (southeast) is a lot of teams start off advertising themselves as "A" teams. Mom or dad and a friend or two decide they are not happy with their current situation so they form their own team with their kids, who are usually not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. They get a late start, often still looking for an "ace pitcher" or "top flight catcher" way after all the traditionally big name orgs have held tryouts and set their rosters. So then they struggle to fill the roster and end up with lots of B and even a C player or two. Then they have a hard time coming to grips with this as they can't compete with the true A teams. This is mostly in 10u and 12u right now. I'm not seeing this at the 14u level, at least to the same extent.

Add to that the growing supply of parents with checkbooks who want their kids to be associated with "A" ball or "travel ball" and you get an overall watering down of play. The top level teams have not been watered down, and are dominating as much as ever right now.

This is why we have so many "nationals" too. These parents just want to say their kids went. They don't care if it's a local national, regional national or the real thing.

 

[Jquick823]

This is why we have so many "nationals" too. These parents just want to say their kids went. They don't care if it's a local national, regional national or the real thing.

Not an attack I'm playing the devils advocate here. Real Thing? To the kids that go it's the real thing regardless of location and skill level. My DD plays A/B level ball and has played the USSSA Eastern World Series in 2012,13,14. She had a great time.

Now that being said it's a sad excuse for a tournament and I much prefer NSA/ASA/PONY over anything USSSA. But I'm sure to the girls that are going to the regionals they are proud of that accomplishment. To some that's the best it's ever going to get.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

The problem I see in my area right now (southeast) is a lot of teams start off advertising themselves as "A" teams. Mom or dad and a friend or two decide they are not happy with their current situation so they form their own team with their kids, who are usually not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. They get a late start, often still looking for an "ace pitcher" or "top flight catcher" way after all the traditionally big name orgs have held tryouts and set their rosters. So then they struggle to fill the roster and end up with lots of B and even a C player or two. Then they have a hard time coming to grips with this as they can't compete with the true A teams. This is mostly in 10u and 12u right now. I'm not seeing this at the 14u level, at least to the same extent.

Add to that the growing supply of parents with checkbooks who want their kids to be associated with "A" ball or "travel ball" and you get an overall watering down of play. The top level teams have not been watered down, and are dominating as much as ever right now.

This is what we see.

There are legitimately three very solid A class teams in the area who will slug it out at the various qualifiers and about five more teams who might be able to beat those three on any given day but would probably lose to them 8 or 9 times out of 10. If the top teams play any of the other so-called "A" teams in the area, it's pretty much a rout. I mean, like having a girl or two take three strikes and another one or two lead off early to make a semi-final not look so terribly bad. Most of those teams are indeed started by parents who were perhaps on other teams and realized that DD was maybe a #4 or #3 pitcher, at best, and decided she needs circle time so they go off and make a #4 pitcher into a #1 on an "A" team, with their #2 and #3 pitchers being even less developed than their former #4 (now #1) DD.

I am not disparaging parent coaches at all, here. Just saying that the domination continues by a handful of teams and the rest really should be looking at playing a mostly "B" schedule so their DDs can pitch at the level they belong at.

EDIT: Wanted to add that I feel all girls who want to play ball and even have the TB experience should be able to do so. There should be a team for everyone. I just wish the classifications were more clear-cut and there was a way to relegate those teams who don't measure up into a lower division, much like soccer does in Europe. There should always be an opportunity for those who want to play at the highest levels to do so, as well.

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

Here’s the thing...

There is NEVER to many girls playing Fastpitch. I'll be happy when every girl wants to play.

There should be room at every level for girls to play - and the free market will sort that out over time. What a lot of you are doing is looking at a snap shot of right now - Bad teams will fold good teams will get better girls and if the best teams don't get the best girls there is probably a reason and they are probably not really the best teams.

It would be nice to equitably distribute girls over larger geographic regions but we can’t -

What would be helpful would be More and better coaching to help develop teams. Instead of all those listings for "NEED a #1 Pitcher" they could develop a girl from 10U to be a #1 at 14U

I see a lot of organizations that crow about college placement who suck up teams whole from other organization’s or cherry pick girls who are college bound. but these teams aren't developing any players. yet they claim to be the Ellite organizations.

There are plenty of girls on the soccer pitch right now who could have been great 14U or 16U players but somebody at 10U told them they weren't good enough for their team. and there were no other teams in their area. so Soccer was there to catch them.

 

[MNDad]

Not an attack I'm playing the devils advocate here. Real Thing? To the kids that go it's the real thing regardless of location and skill level. My DD plays A/B level ball and has played the USSSA Eastern World Series in 2012,13,14. She had a great time.

Now that being said it's a sad excuse for a tournament and I much prefer NSA/ASA/PONY over anything USSSA. But I'm sure to the girls that are going to the regionals they are proud of that accomplishment. To some that's the best it's ever going to get.

I meant that for the parents. At the younger ages the kids just want to have fun. Throw up a couple banners, hold a parade and the girls feel like they're in the World Series. When that's the purpose this type of event is perfect.

Some parents on the other hand just like to brag that their daughter went to nationals and don't care if all the teams are within 20 miles or the level of play.

 

[MNDad]

I used to think travel ball was becoming too diluted in our area. We had so many programs pop up that nobody could put together a team filled with "A" caliber ball players. Add that to some of our top players seeking better competetion and playing down south and the situation looked dire.

What I'm seeing instead are club programs elevating their game to develop and retain players. That's already improved the overall quality and in time will produce even more high caliber players.