The worst tryout I've ever seen

[CoachCeetar]

We'd have to reign in the travel director, and when half the board tried it didn't go over well.

So instead we're trying to train the remaining rec coaches into better coaches. We'll see how that goes.

We're just a small town not a program, but we floated the idea of a little 'coaches clinic' last fall no one ever got around to it. Some of us (the coaches) talk about it, but time flies, scheduling is tough. We got sorta hamstrung last season because we had too many kids for 2 teams, not enough for 3, but we went 3 and we got stuck with too many of the kids that had dance/soccer/flaky and spent half the time just begging people to show up and trying to find subs, never mind doing that all over again for another practice, balancing fields, etc.

Just having dedicated time and space to practice and play, with a regular subset of kids that will show up goes so far.

Can only have as many teams as you have pitchers. Not developing a pitcher with only 2x/week practice, either.

Sure. hence 'properly trained coaches'. Hopefully one or two girls are taking private lessons too. But if you have this system in place at 8, 9, 10 years old, you can get enough kids enough reps that you can sorta fake it. Not winning any tournaments probably, but playing good softball, winning a few games, having some fun? sure.

 

[The Man In Blue]

There is no profit to be made in community-based "rec ball" programs. That's all there is to it. Okay, maybe there is a little more: as a culture, we no longer have a sense of community to play for.

Somebody will always be happy to take your check and provide you very little in return.

But hey, those girls play travel ball and will all be getting full-ride D1 scholarships along with a billions dollars in NIL money!

 

[earlg3]

I'm thankful travel softball exists so it's possible to have competitive softball. Competitive, driven players deserve not having to play with kids that have never played and are only there because their parents made them sign up for an extracurricular activity.

And kids that have never played and are only there because their parents made them sign up for an extracurricular activity deserve to not get dunked on by competitive, driven players.

I'm not sure any recreational softball situation can provide that. We are in a large metropolis but still don't have enough girls in recreational softball (even in 8u before those girls start to do travel) to do anything close to majors/minors/whatever like baseball has.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I really don't get the complaint about travel softball being just about profit.

I'm thankful travel softball exists so it's possible to have competitive softball. Competitive, driven players deserve not having to play with kids that have never played and are only there because their parents made them sign up for an extracurricular activity.

And kids that have never played and are only there because their parents made them sign up for an extracurricular activity deserve to not get dunked on by competitive, driven players.

I'm not sure any recreational softball situation can provide that. We are in a large metropolis but still don't have enough girls in recreational softball (even in 8u before those girls start to do travel) to do anything close to majors/minors/whatever like baseball has.

You are not wrong . . . but you aren't 100% correct, either.

You are absolutely spot on with skill levels, and that is precisely why the sport needs different levels to exist. Everybody has a different purpose for the sport.

Rec ball's primary function is to allow players to enter the game while removing barriers. Without that, you are shutting out large segments of the population who cannot afford to toss dollar after dollar to softball. Or segments that say, "We are already paying for soccer/swim/basketball/piano/knitting/equestrian/Latin/Future Social Media Influencer classes/food/medicine . . . " and are not going to pay $1,000 just try something out for the first time.

Some rec players will continue to have fun in passing as long as their program can exist and allows them to. Some players will get good and develop a passion and move on to "bigger" things. ALL of those players should have a place to play.

The salesmen have buffaloed people into thinking rec is something inferior and should be avoided. All they have done is conned too many people into paying them more money for an equally non-competitive experience and destroyed community programs for their wallets and egos. There is a reason "competitive" ball is nowhere near as competitive as it used to be. It is just "travel" ball now . . . go places, pay money. Maybe you are skilled, maybe you see some skilled competition . . . and maybe not.

 

[earlg3]

You are not wrong . . . but you aren't 100% correct, either.

You are absolutely spot on with skill levels, and that is precisely why the sport needs different levels to exist. Everybody has a different purpose for the sport.

Rec ball's primary function is to allow players to enter the game while removing barriers. Without that, you are shutting out large segments of the population who cannot afford to toss dollar after dollar to softball. Or segments that say, "We are already paying for soccer/swim/basketball/piano/knitting/equestrian/Latin/Future Social Media Influencer classes/food/medicine . . . " and are not going to pay $1,000 just try something out for the first time.

Some rec players will continue to have fun in passing as long as their program can exist and allows them to. Some players will get good and develop a passion and move on to "bigger" things. ALL of those players should have a place to play.

The salesmen have buffaloed people into thinking rec is something inferior and should be avoided. All they have done is conned too many people into paying them more money for an equally non-competitive experience and destroyed community programs for their wallets and egos. There is a reason "competitive" ball is nowhere near as competitive as it used to be. It is just "travel" ball now . . . go places, pay money. Maybe you are skilled, maybe you see some skilled competition . . . and maybe not.

I agree, and honestly I wish rec ball was better, if only to allow the more casual girls to have a better time.

On the topic of cost, I've never ran a travel team, so I don't know the total logistics of the costs, but the actual cost of travel doesn't seem to need to be as high as some places make it. None of the teams we've been on are $1000, and the team we are on now I think 80% of the fee goes to renting practice facilities more than the tournaments themselves (and the fees are actually paid to the parks and rec for their fields).

As far as the tournaments, since they are publicly listed prices, a tournament here this weekend is $225 entry + $185 gate, so $410 for the tournament per team. Divided by 12, that's $35/player for an entire day of entertainment. Honestly, where is a family getting more value for their money than $35 for an all-day softball tournament?

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, and I'm sure these tournaments are making plenty of money (and relatedly they should be paying umpires handsomely), but I still think it's a great value.

(Edit: I assume the entry fee is per team and not per player, if not hoo boy am I wrong )

 

[CoachCeetar]

I agree, and honestly I wish rec ball was better, if only to allow the more casual girls to have a better time.

On the topic of cost, I've never ran a travel team, so I don't know the total logistics of the costs, but the actual cost of travel doesn't seem to need to be as high as some places make it. None of the teams we've been on are $1000, and the team we are on now I think 80% of the fee goes to renting practice facilities more than the tournaments themselves (and the fees are actually paid to the parks and rec for their fields).

As far as the tournaments, since they are publicly listed prices, a tournament here this weekend is $225 entry + $185 gate, so $410 for the tournament per team. Divided by 12, that's $35/player for an entire day of entertainment. Honestly, where is a family getting more value for their money than $35 for an all-day softball tournament?

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, and I'm sure these tournaments are making plenty of money (and relatedly they should be paying umpires handsomely), but I still think it's a great value.

dedicated practice facilities/times are everything. rec/town travel is mostly a logistical nightmare. I don't know what the middle ground is, there doesn't seem to be a lot of options there. Just KNOWING that practice will always be tuesday/Thursday nights, you won't get bumped, etc etc, every week.

Just dealt with some of that, and I'm sure my daughter would like to play more (she's not doing anything in fall), but there's just not enough kids. But she also doesn't seem to, yet, want to commit to what seems like full-time softball with a real club/travel team (And potentially miss out on some of the softball with her friends for conflicts)

I'm actually now wondering if maybe we should've done a tryout or two just to like, say hello and maybe be an option as a guest player? I don't know if she's good enough for that though anyway. How do guest players usually work, are they often just warm bodies?

 

[RADcatchers]

Rec ball seems to rise or fall pending the people / parents that are involved with it that year or years.

Often Socially driven. Seems to match the desire of that social group.

Generally people get back what they put into it.

 

[stox]

Rec ball seems to rise or fall pending the people / parents that are involved with it that year or years.

Often Socially driven. Seems to match the desire of that social group.

Generally people get back what they put into it.

If the top coach(es) of the rec league stick around to coach the all star teams then families will stick around, and the level of play in rec will be alright. If the league fails to accomodate the better coaches then they will leave and take 11 other talented players with them. In 10u that usually means all the pitching.

Our league has fundraisers to partially sponsor a trip for 2 10u all star softball teams (one of them to OKC to watch the WCWS and play a tournament there). Not sure how much the sponsorship actually is but it kept most of the talent in 10u rec long enough until they aged out and moved to travel in 12u.

With the competitive allure of travel ball always present, leagues absolutely need find ways to accomodate the talent and their parent coaches. Good pitchers who are taking lessons and practicing are subsidizing the experience for the rest of the girls in the league. Scare them away and they'll take their talents elsewhere and now the league has no pitching and the rec experience is terrible for everyone.

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[RADcatchers]

If the top coach(es)

IF there are those considered top coaches the league is fortunate!

 

[Chilixa]

I agree, and honestly I wish rec ball was better, if only to allow the more casual girls to have a better time.

On the topic of cost, I've never ran a travel team, so I don't know the total logistics of the costs, but the actual cost of travel doesn't seem to need to be as high as some places make it. None of the teams we've been on are $1000, and the team we are on now I think 80% of the fee goes to renting practice facilities more than the tournaments themselves (and the fees are actually paid to the parks and rec for their fields).

As far as the tournaments, since they are publicly listed prices, a tournament here this weekend is $225 entry + $185 gate, so $410 for the tournament per team. Divided by 12, that's $35/player for an entire day of entertainment. Honestly, where is a family getting more value for their money than $35 for an all-day softball tournament?

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, and I'm sure these tournaments are making plenty of money (and relatedly they should be paying umpires handsomely), but I still think it's a great value.

(Edit: I assume the entry fee is per team and not per player, if not hoo boy am I wrong )

Hotel and travel costs are the most expensive thing for us. We pay 700-1000 a season for tourney fees, and maybe some extra for uniforms and indoor facility usage.
Not terrible at all.

But in our area we have to travel a minimum of 2 hours for decent competition. And more like 4 hours for every tourney now that she is on a higher level team. Most tourneys are at least two nights in a hotel now. Twice a month and that adds up pretty quickly. This summer cost me a small fortune for these week long tourneys.


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