Team hopping and recruiting

[FP26]

I'm in a tough spot with one of my DD's right now. I am considering jumping ship right now but we made a commitment. However, that commitment came with the understanding we would play lots of SB and find teams equal to or better than us to play against. Here we are on May 7th and we have only played 15 games, over half of which were against far inferior teams that do nothing to improve our team. We are off until Memorial Day weekend. Other teams in the area are at 30-40+ games so far with tournaments planned this weekend and/or next. I didn't pay all this money and commit to this team just to sit around on the weekends when other girls are out there getting playing time and getting better. More importantly, my DD does not put in all the hard work she puts in just to sit at home and watch softball on ESPN three Saturdays a month wishing she was playing.

With that said, we've been approached by a team to have my DD join them. My wife is against it because we made the commitment to the first team. But she is also frustrated at lack of play and quality of play. We are both concerned that leaving mid season will "brand" us as difficult parents. It's tough because we really like the coach as a person, like the other parents, but expect more than 15 games at this point of the year.

To me this seems like one of those fuzzy areas. Maybe my expectations are off, but last year with this same organization we played over 60 games in the spring/summer season, so I kinda thought this year would be the same.

Again, this is a case of a one way commitment. It sounds like the coaches are not practicing what they preached. Some people may consider this team jumping, but I would not. However, in your particular case there are a couple of other things I would consider.

First of all, Memorial Day isn't that far away at this point. Will switching teams really change the number of games you will play from now until the end of the summer? Or is the current team just getting a late start? I would want to look at that closer before I made a decision.
When we played 12u, we had 3 tournaments in by now. Now at 14u, our first tournament has not been played yet. 3/4 of our team is currently involved in junior high sports and has not been available. It is not that we have not wanted to do tournaments. We simply didn't have the manpower.
We selected our tournaments and distributed the list to the parents. We are expecting to play a certain level of competition, but we don't know who is in most of those tournaments yet. Based on previous years, we are expecting them to be competitive, but we may show up and find lower level teams. I hope not, but it is a possibility. We can't control what teams enter each tournament.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I agree with you. That is why I believe in the two way commitment. In your example, I feel the coach is not meeting his end, so neither should you.

In my experience, #3 and #4 pitchers on a team are among the most notoriously unhappy people in all of softball, especially on better teams. There are always other teams where these girls can be #2s or even #1s and they know this and it wears on them.

It isn't anyone's fault, really. If another pitcher is better, she should see more circle time. I think we all can agree on that. It just gets hard for a girl and her family if she is a pitcher and isn't pitching very much, which is entirely understandable.

 

[FP26]

In my experience, #3 and #4 pitchers on a team are among the most notoriously unhappy people in all of softball, especially on better teams. There are always other teams where these girls can be #2s or even #1s and they know this and it wears on them.

It isn't anyone's fault, really. If another pitcher is better, she should see more circle time. I think we all can agree on that. It just gets hard for a girl and her family if she is a pitcher and isn't pitching very much, which is entirely understandable.

I agree with you completely Little Angels. But in that particular post it seemed like the coach either promised or implied something that was not occurring. That can be dangerous. If a coach makes promises and doesnt live up to them, he should expect some players to be unhappy. Even if a coach doesnt make promises there is still a chance that there will be discord but by making the promises you are somewhat asking for it. Especially with pitchers.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I think what I failed to say, fp26, is that the girl may have been selected as a pitcher then only earned perhaps the #3 or #4 spot on the team. I know I have taken girls as a pitcher who wound up that way and didn't get much time in the circle after the rotation worked itself out over a few tournaments. I let them pitch to find out, of course, but if a girl ends up #4 in a three-girl rotation or #3 in a mainly two-girl rotation, it isn't necessarily breaking a promise. It is just reality and going with the better pitchers should pretty much always be what is right for the team.

it isn't the girl's fault, as she is presumably doing her best. It isn't my fault if two or three girls are better. I signed her as a pitcher and gave her the opportunity to win her spot. I did so because she looked like she could be a pitcher for us during tryouts but couldn't in the end compete with the other girls for a spot in the rotation. It happens all the time, unfortunately. It is just extra-hard on pitchers and their families because they all want to pitch as much as possible.

I'm not sure exactly what happened above but what I describe happens to so many teams. I just can't seem to find fault with either party when it goes down like this, though.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Also, I've heard it said here and elsewhere that the top programs don't have to recruit. It may be that they don't have to do it, but IMO, some of the best organizations do the most recruiting.

What might be more appropriate, top/good programs don't have to do tryouts. They have enough of a reputation that girls "apply" to them, or the ones they do actively recruit/court jump at the opportunity.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

When we did a roster, that was for a season, I expected and honored that with my team and others. ( pre school ball a season would be spring/summer, and the next season was fall ) I might "court" a prospect during a season, but I never stole one mid season, that would be wrong in my book.

2 things here. Run a good program, physically, mentally, emotionally............you won't lose many. Run a good program, physically, mentally, emotionally..........you can recruit many. Hope that made sense.

 

[SamRam]

This is really a tough one to address. It comes up quite often in our area. Let me start with the caveat that I am the head coach of a '99 14A team.

First to answer your question on whether there are valid reasons to leave a team. Yes there are. In my opinion those reasons would be very severe situations of mistreatment, abuse, or the inability of the coach to fulfill his coaching obligations (meaning the team breaks up or they leave). Now keep in mind that this does not include situations where a parent feels their child isn't getting the playing time they deserve or isn't playing enough. A good, committed coach doesn't want to make any kid sit for an extended period of time.

Outside of the situations I've described above, I don't think there are very many other valid reasons to leave a team. As a coach, and out of respect to my fellow coaches, I will not take players in mid season. It's not fair to the players that have made a commitment to me. Also, I will not talk to players or parents who contact us during the season to inquire about trying out for our team for the following season. I respectfully ask them not to reach out to us until tryouts are posted for our team, if we have them. We have been lucky enough to not have to have them in the last couple of years.

Parents also have to consider the image they are creating for their daughter and their family by not fulfilling the commitments they made. Coaches talk and the softball community is a small world.

Recruiting players is a whole other animal. All coaches in the comp/travel ball world know that it happens and that there are those that don't operate their organizations with a lot of integrity. They find different ways to recruit, whether it is having someone guest play, join them for a practice, or going to their games when they here that someone isn't happy with their team. Again, in most circles, it is known who those coaches are. I am not saying that players shouldn't guest play, but there are also protocols and some level of integrity that it should be done with, but that is another discussion. There are teams that my players know they are prohibited to guest play with, for the very reason that they are only using it as a recruiting tool. Look, the majority of the coaches I know are good people who run their organizations with the utmost integrity. Unfortunately you have a few here and there that don't.

In the end, parents have to do what is best for their daughter. Not all teams will be a good fit for the player or the parents. But fulfilling commitments is a very important lesson all travel ball players should learn at an early age.

I hope you find this helpful!

 

[PA SB Dad]

When we did a roster, that was for a season, I expected and honored that with my team and others. ( pre school ball a season would be spring/summer, and the next season was fall ) I might "court" a prospect during a season, but I never stole one mid season, that would be wrong in my book.

Agree completely, as a coach, you make a commitment to your team just as you expect each player to make a commitment to the team. I've had parents of pitchers come to me and ask me if their DD can guest pitch for me on their off weekends. I only take a guest player when I don't have enough to compete for the weekend (ie at least 10 able-bodied players in which we have 2 pitchers and 2 catchers), even if their DD is a better pitcher than the ones I have. I don't see what good it does you as a coach to sit a player for an unneeded guest player just to try to win a tournament. In the long run, I think it hurts you more than helps you.

 

[FP26]

I think what I failed to say, fp26, is that the girl may have been selected as a pitcher then only earned perhaps the #3 or #4 spot on the team. I know I have taken girls as a pitcher who wound up that way and didn't get much time in the circle after the rotation worked itself out over a few tournaments. I let them pitch to find out, of course, but if a girl ends up #4 in a three-girl rotation or #3 in a mainly two-girl rotation, it isn't necessarily breaking a promise. It is just reality and going with the better pitchers should pretty much always be what is right for the team.

it isn't the girl's fault, as she is presumably doing her best. It isn't my fault if two or three girls are better. I signed her as a pitcher and gave her the opportunity to win her spot. I did so because she looked like she could be a pitcher for us during tryouts but couldn't in the end compete with the other girls for a spot in the rotation. It happens all the time, unfortunately. It is just extra-hard on pitchers and their families because they all want to pitch as much as possible.

I'm not sure exactly what happened above but what I describe happens to so many teams. I just can't seem to find fault with either party when it goes down like this, though.

I agree with you completely. I think we are just looking at the same situation slightly different. You are looking at it through the eyes of a coach that is trying to do things what I consider to be the right way. We are on the same page there. I am proposing the alternative that a coach was recruiting players by making promises that he couldn't keep. Then when the parents realize the promises are not coming true, they have a gripe. In your scenario, I agree that there is no one to blame, it just happens. In my scenario, the coach should not have made the promises.

Case in point. There is a team in our area that has a reputation of turning players over rapidly. The coach is a good guy, but he is a much better salesperson than he is a coach. He recruits heavily by making all kinds of promises concerning playing time, level of tournament play, etc. Then when the parents realize they have been snowed, the exodus begins. This team's turnover has been well over 50% each of the past three years. It's predictable. I'm sure this is not the norm, but it is a story I have seen unfold.

 

[FP26]

Agree completely, as a coach, you make a commitment to your team just as you expect each player to make a commitment to the team. I've had parents of pitchers come to me and ask me if their DD can guest pitch for me on their off weekends. I only take a guest player when I don't have enough to compete for the weekend (ie at least 10 able-bodied players in which we have 2 pitchers and 2 catchers), even if their DD is a better pitcher than the ones I have. I don't see what good it does you as a coach to sit a player for an unneeded guest player just to try to win a tournament. In the long run, I think it hurts you more than helps you.

Well said PA SB Dad. I have seen the scenario you suggest destroy teams.