Sportsmanship issue?

[Strike2]

IMO, there are two definitions for "ultra competitive"...

1. One who does everything possible to make themselves and everyone around them better, or...

2. One who will stop at nothing, including trickery, bush-league tactics, and even cheating to compensate for a lack of skill.

It's pretty obvious what most of us would choose for ourselves and our kids. That makes the answer to this question rather obvious, regardless of what activity we're talking about.

 

[dadofadirtlover]

IMO, there are two definitions for "ultra competitive"...

1. One who does everything possible to make themselves and everyone around them better, or...

2. One who will stop at nothing, including trickery, bush-league tactics, and even cheating to compensate for a lack of skill.

It's pretty obvious what most of us would choose for ourselves and our kids. That makes the answer to this question rather obvious, regardless of what activity we're talking about.

That's ridiculous! If you don't know something is against the rules, then it isn't "one who will stop at nothing". The mere fact that I'm asking the question highlights the fact that I am NOT, nor my DD, stopping at nothing. She didn't do it. She asked a question about whether it was allowed. It's pretty obvious that you have attempted to make yourself a moral compass on a basic question from an unlearned SB parent. "Most of us" doesn't make me or my child bush league or cheaters and insinuating such is ridiculous.

The definition of competitive is "as good as or better than others of a comparable nature".
The definition of ultra is "extremist".
After one season of 8U, my DD worked her butt off to get ready for 10U instead of playing down for another season. She wound up ranked #1 in 10U. That's ultra competitive by definition, not your opinion, humble or otherwise. She follows the rules and wants to win WITHIN the rules.

 

[quincy]

I think it was a good question by both you and your DD.

You opened yourself up a little bit by putting the ultra-competitive part in there.

 

[Sparky Guy]

H

I really hope this type of old school attitude about players policing themselves, blah blah blah stops with this next generation of ball players. This nonsense has to stop. This is by far more serious a "bush league"' tactic than a player verbally saying I got it. Both are wrong but physical violence should never be tolerated or encouraged on the softball field. We don't live in the wild, wild west anymore....

If my DD intentionally threw at a batters ribs, that would be the last time she pitched as long as she is under my roof. Absolutely no excuse for it.

There are thugs in almost every level of sports. All you have to do is look at some of the instances of that have been caught on camera lately in HS sports and the NFL. Sometimes the only thing the thug understands is greater violence. Is it right? No... Is it necessary? Sometimes it is...

The only time I ever saw my DD throw at a player was in response to a thug move to her teammates. A 1st baseman for a team in their conference would intentionally slap the base runner in the head hard with her glove and the ball on a pick-off attempt at 1st if the runner dove back to the bag. It was not a one-time accident on a close play. This was a done on multiple occasions to multiple runners. There was absolutely no doubt what the player was trying to do. My DD knocked the girl down 3 times in one at bat while striking her out on curveballs. Normally after a K my DD would turn around and signal the outs to her defense. After that one she stared at the girl until she reached the dugout. Following that the thug stopped the nonsense.

Was it right? Technically, no... Did it protect her teammates? Yes... Sometimes a thug needs to know that clean players are not afraid to go wild, wild west on them if their actions dictate the need for it.

 

[Acroyear]

Rule number 1 of asking for opinions on the internet:

Prepare to receive them.

 

[JAD]

What about the catcher yelling "Bunt!" if the batter is bunting to alert the rest of the team? That's kosher, isn't it? Is that really that different from what the OP said? If so, how?

We coach all of our infielders to yell "bunt", not just the catcher. The 1B yelling bunt helps alert the 2B that 1B is crashing and she needs to cover the bag.

 

[dadofadirtlover]

Rule number 1 of asking for opinions on the internet:

Prepare to receive them.

Rule number 2: Prepare for a response if you give an opinion.

 

[RetiredCoach]

I am one who would definitely agree that intentionally hurting a player is "bad". However, there was a situation in the state tournament this past summer where I was willing to stretch my principles. My DD was pitching a great game against a very good team. The first time she came up to bat she was hit by a pitched ball. The second time she came up to bat she, again, was hit by a pitched ball. She was the only girl in the entire lineup that was even close to being hit by a pitch. This made her very mad. I was the pitching coach for this team and we talked about it. I gave her my permission to pitch her best FB up and in. I was not telling her to hit the girl but I wanted her to make a statement. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your take, the opportunity did not present itself. But I'd give the same advice next time.

 

[Strike2]

That's ridiculous! If you don't know something is against the rules, then it isn't "one who will stop at nothing". The mere fact that I'm asking the question highlights the fact that I am NOT, nor my DD, stopping at nothing. She didn't do it. She asked a question about whether it was allowed. It's pretty obvious that you have attempted to make yourself a moral compass on a basic question from an unlearned SB parent. "Most of us" doesn't make me or my child bush league or cheaters and insinuating such is ridiculous.

The definition of competitive is "as good as or better than others of a comparable nature".
The definition of ultra is "extremist".
After one season of 8U, my DD worked her butt off to get ready for 10U instead of playing down for another season. She wound up ranked #1 in 10U. That's ultra competitive by definition, not your opinion, humble or otherwise. She follows the rules and wants to win WITHIN the rules.

No, it's not...it's experience.

I won't argue with you about your dictionary definitions, but you're the one who referred to your kid as "ultra competitive". Where did that come from? By your definition, she's an "extremist"??? I'm sure she's a hard worker, and a good player, but this discussion seems less about her than about you.

My definition goes well beyond softball, and the question you asked is, at the core, a moral one. I'll offer my own dictionary definition to that word, which you brought up...

Moral...

"of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical"

"founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom"

You see, it isn't about what might be legal, it's about what's right. That you couldn't give your daughter the right answer on your own is telling, as is the defensive and even shrill nature of your response.

 

[dadofadirtlover]

No, it's not...it's experience.

I won't argue with you about your dictionary definitions, but you're the one who referred to your kid as "ultra competitive". Where did that come from? By your definition, she's an "extremist"??? I'm sure she's a hard worker, and a good player, but this discussion seems less about her than about you.

My definition goes well beyond softball, and the question you asked is, at the core, a moral one. I'll offer my own dictionary definition to another word you brought up...

Moral...

"of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical"

"founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom"

You see, it isn't about what might be legal, it's about what's right. That you couldn't give your daughter the right answer on your own is telling, as is the shrill nature of your response.

Again.....it's not a moral question. It's a rule question. In basketball, it is not "unsportsmanlike" to confuse the opponent at any point. In softball, it is. I will always play within the rules and play to the max. If my DD could do absolutely nothing last season (didn't even own proper equipment at the beginning of the season) and choose to work all summer everyday on every aspect of the game she could and research it thoroughly. Then, arrive at 10U and be ranked #1, that is extreme. Not by just my assertion. By every coach that saw her at the same evaluation a season earlier. The fact they said they'd not seen that level of growth in just 1 season ever. Does that mean my daughter is Jenny Finch? No. It does mean that she has done something that is perceived as rare for a 8 - 9 year old girl in terms of work ethic and quick implementation. The definition of extreme means to reach the highest level. She did that. So, by definition, she is extreme.

My daughter ASKED IF SOMETHING WAS WRONG OR RIGHT......that's morals ("concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct"). Since you want to then turn it on me.....I asked DFP, people who purportedly know the written and unwritten rules of the game. That's being concerened with the distinction between right and wrong. Again....morals.