The 3 foot rule applies to the path the BR has set for themselves, not a straight line between bases. The only time there is truly a set path is the lane between home and 1B.
Running Backwards To Avoid The Tag?
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Since you were talking to a HS coach, NFHS rule 8-2 article 5 covers the BR being out when she steps back towards home plate. I saw no rule stating the runner going to second being out for going backward.
There are three things you are conflating:
The Running Lane: The last half of the distance between home and first which includes the foul line and 36" to the right. This is what is involved with the RLI rule.
The base line: The line between any two consecutive bases.
The base path: The direct line between a runner and the base to which she is advancing at the time. This base path is determined when there is an attempt to tag a runner, at that point in time the runner may not deviate more than 3' left or right from her (now) determined base path.
Generally the base line/base path are the same for the first base to which a runner is advancing. It is most relevant in the Force-play slide rule. When talking about a runner running rather than sliding, it is almost always more proper to speak of 'her base path' rather than 'the base line'. (Notice how even that suggests something, the base path belongs to the runner, she determines where it is. The base line exists all the time, from one base to the next)
The base path/base line/running lane have nothing to do with calling a runner out for retreating towards home plate.
As for the OP, the only time a batter-runner is called out simply for retreating is between home and first (since only a batter-runner would be running from home to first). All other runners can advance or retreat as they choose, as long as once there is an attempt to make a tag on them they run within 3' of a line between their present position and the base which they are attempting to advance/retreat (the runner's base path).
The Running Lane: The last half of the distance between home and first which includes the foul line and 36" to the right. This is what is involved with the RLI rule.
The base line: The line between any two consecutive bases.
The base path: The direct line between a runner and the base to which she is advancing at the time. This base path is determined when there is an attempt to tag a runner, at that point in time the runner may not deviate more than 3' left or right from her (now) determined base path.
Generally the base line/base path are the same for the first base to which a runner is advancing. It is most relevant in the Force-play slide rule. When talking about a runner running rather than sliding, it is almost always more proper to speak of 'her base path' rather than 'the base line'. (Notice how even that suggests something, the base path belongs to the runner, she determines where it is. The base line exists all the time, from one base to the next)
The base path/base line/running lane have nothing to do with calling a runner out for retreating towards home plate.
As for the OP, the only time a batter-runner is called out simply for retreating is between home and first (since only a batter-runner would be running from home to first). All other runners can advance or retreat as they choose, as long as once there is an attempt to make a tag on them they run within 3' of a line between their present position and the base which they are attempting to advance/retreat (the runner's base path).
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1. The only time a batter-runner (BR) can not retreat is if a defender is trying to tag her. If there is no play being made on her, the BR can go forward, sideways, stop, whatever...... It's only if someone is trying to tag her that she can not retreat.
2. As for the "all they can do is stop" statement, stopping is one of the options in softball but they can run around the tag (within 3 feet), slide under the tag, stutter step to get the fielder lunging and off-balance, or stop. Lot of choices that can work if done well.
3. As for the 3' limit while running bases, it also only comes into play when someone is trying to apply the tag. if no attempt to tag, runner can zig-zag as far as she wants while running the bases. But if a tag is being attempted, runner is limited to 3' zag.
4. And on a related point, if a fielder is trying to make a play on a batted ball, the runner can go very far around the defender to avoid interfering with the play. But once the ball is fielded and the fielder is attempting to tag the runner, the runner is back into the no more than 3' evasion tactic.
Hope that helps.
- Dec 11, 2010
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By saying I’m confused, mostly I was trying to be polite. I admit that I am sometimes not all that good at it.
We still have some folks mixing apples and oranges here. In a big old fricking Jimmy Buffett blender.
I will also remind myself and other posters that we are all familiar with different levels and ages of softball, from rec 8’s to NCAA D1…. People whose journey is at a different place will have a different perspective. It’s been awhile since I have been to a game where a batter runner is going to out juke a first baseman, lol.
We still have some folks mixing apples and oranges here. In a big old fricking Jimmy Buffett blender.
I will also remind myself and other posters that we are all familiar with different levels and ages of softball, from rec 8’s to NCAA D1…. People whose journey is at a different place will have a different perspective. It’s been awhile since I have been to a game where a batter runner is going to out juke a first baseman, lol.
- May 29, 2015
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I'm not sure who is talking to who ... so I apologize if I step on any of this.
THE single most important thing here (out of base path, not specifically "retreating to home") is to be aware of your ruleset. Baseball is different than softball and we all know each code is different within those.
The second most important thing is to pay attention to what words are (and are not) present in the rule.
OBR (MLB)5.09(b)(1)
He runs more than three feet away from his base path to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s base path is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;
NCAA Baseball 8.5.a
In running to any base, while trying to avoid being tagged out, the runner runs more than three feet left or right from a direct line between the base and the runner’s location at the time a play is being made;
NFHS Baseball 8-4-2(a) Note: NFHS seems to use baseline and basepath interchangeably.
... runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base;
12.4.5 When she is running to any base in regular or reverse order, and she attempts to avoid or delay a tag by running out of the base path. EFFECT—See Rule 12.10.5.
12.10.5 When she is running to any base in regular or reverse order, the runner may not attempt to avoid or delay a tag by running out of the base path. (See also Rule 2.6.)
2.6 Base Path The imaginary direct line, and three feet to either side of the line, between a base and a runner’s position at the time a defensive player is attempting to apply a tag. The base path is the established path on the infield traveled by a runner who is attempting to advance to the next base.
NFHS Softball
8-6-1 Running to any base in regular or reverse order and the runner runs more than three feet (0.91 m) from the base path to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand(s) of a fielder.
2-3-2 (Definitions, Base Path) The traditional path traveled by a runner who is attempting to advance to the next base. It is defined by a direct line between two bases and three feet on either side of that line, unless a fielder has the ball in her possession and she is within three feet of the runner and prepared to apply a tag. A base runner who attempts to avoid a tag by running more than three feet to either side of a fielder with the ball in her possession shall be declared out.
USA Softball
8-7-A When running to any base in regular or reverse order and the runner runs more than three feet from the base path to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand or glove of a fielder.
Rule 1 Definitions: Base path: A line directly between a base and the runner's position at the time a defensive player is attempting to tag that runner.
USSSA Softball
8.18(A)Runs more than three feet away from the base path to avoid being tagged, or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base.
Rule 3 Definitions: Base Path: A base path is a direct line between a base and the runner's position at the time a defensive player is attempting (or about to attempt) a tag.
THE single most important thing here (out of base path, not specifically "retreating to home") is to be aware of your ruleset. Baseball is different than softball and we all know each code is different within those.
The second most important thing is to pay attention to what words are (and are not) present in the rule.
OBR (MLB)5.09(b)(1)
He runs more than three feet away from his base path to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s base path is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely;
NCAA Baseball 8.5.a
In running to any base, while trying to avoid being tagged out, the runner runs more than three feet left or right from a direct line between the base and the runner’s location at the time a play is being made;
NFHS Baseball 8-4-2(a) Note: NFHS seems to use baseline and basepath interchangeably.
... runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base;
- This is not an infraction if a fielder attempting to field a batted ball is in the runner’s proper path and if the runner runs behind the fielder to avoid interfering with him.
- When a play is being made on a runner or batter-runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base toward which he is moving.
12.4.5 When she is running to any base in regular or reverse order, and she attempts to avoid or delay a tag by running out of the base path. EFFECT—See Rule 12.10.5.
12.10.5 When she is running to any base in regular or reverse order, the runner may not attempt to avoid or delay a tag by running out of the base path. (See also Rule 2.6.)
2.6 Base Path The imaginary direct line, and three feet to either side of the line, between a base and a runner’s position at the time a defensive player is attempting to apply a tag. The base path is the established path on the infield traveled by a runner who is attempting to advance to the next base.
NFHS Softball
8-6-1 Running to any base in regular or reverse order and the runner runs more than three feet (0.91 m) from the base path to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand(s) of a fielder.
2-3-2 (Definitions, Base Path) The traditional path traveled by a runner who is attempting to advance to the next base. It is defined by a direct line between two bases and three feet on either side of that line, unless a fielder has the ball in her possession and she is within three feet of the runner and prepared to apply a tag. A base runner who attempts to avoid a tag by running more than three feet to either side of a fielder with the ball in her possession shall be declared out.
USA Softball
8-7-A When running to any base in regular or reverse order and the runner runs more than three feet from the base path to avoid being touched by the ball in the hand or glove of a fielder.
Rule 1 Definitions: Base path: A line directly between a base and the runner's position at the time a defensive player is attempting to tag that runner.
USSSA Softball
8.18(A)Runs more than three feet away from the base path to avoid being tagged, or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base.
Rule 3 Definitions: Base Path: A base path is a direct line between a base and the runner's position at the time a defensive player is attempting (or about to attempt) a tag.
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- Dec 11, 2010
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MIB,
Great post! That was what I was awkwardly trying to get to! Players/Coaches/Parents/People can’t read this stuff too much. What I mean by that: Think about when the fans/coaches scream “SHE’S OUT OF THE BASELINE” and when that actually applies to any rule…
Now… In any softball rule set is it allowable for a runner to retreat from 1b toward home plate. Despite the fact that it was covered in the first page, I think that needs a similar treatment to your post #36!
Great post! That was what I was awkwardly trying to get to! Players/Coaches/Parents/People can’t read this stuff too much. What I mean by that: Think about when the fans/coaches scream “SHE’S OUT OF THE BASELINE” and when that actually applies to any rule…
Now… In any softball rule set is it allowable for a runner to retreat from 1b toward home plate. Despite the fact that it was covered in the first page, I think that needs a similar treatment to your post #36!
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Applys to all SB Orgs I have umpired for: USA, USSSA, NSA, NFHS, and NCAA
- May 29, 2015
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Just softball, so shorter ... The general start to all of these is "The batter runner is out" (I forgot to say that above.) ...
NCAA
12.5.7 When she steps back toward home plate to avoid or delay a tag by a fielder.
NFHS
8.2.5 The batter-runner steps back toward home plate to avoid or delay a tag by a fielder.
USA
8-2-H When the batter-runner steps back toward home plate to avoid or delay a tag by a fielder.
USSA
8.17.G When they move backward toward home plate to avoid or delay being tagged out. The ball is dead and base runners must return to the last base touched at the time of the infraction.
Yay softball!
