Tag up Question

[AAACreations]

I’ve been trying to get clarification on a rule. The game is long gone but clarification is still needed for 10u fastpitch softball

Scenario;

1 out Last inning, 7 to 6 your team is up. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter up hits a pop fly that is caught. Runner on first is half way to second, does not reach 2nd and returns back to first. Runner on third ran home on the initial hit and touched home plate. Girl who caught the pop fly threw it home. Runner who was on third touched home. Ball is late getting to home and is not tagged. Coaches and everyone else is yelling at her to go back to third. Runner (who ran home) runs back to third and is called safe at third.

I ask if this was the correct call because it’s the same scenario but roles reversed. We were the runners and we were called out. Umpire advised that bases must be ran in order and since she touched home plate she can not go back to 3rd. states runners must touch bases in order and once she touched home she was no longer allowed to go back to third base. I went home and read that section and agreed. I would just like clarification.

For reference I was reading in Rule 8 Section 6(a) and (f).

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

I’ve been trying to get clarification on a rule. The game is long gone but clarification is still needed for 10u fastpitch softball

Scenario;

1 out Last inning, 7 to 6 your team is up. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Batter up hits a pop fly that is caught. Runner on first is half way to second, does not reach 2nd and returns back to first. Runner on third ran home on the initial hit and touched home plate. Girl who caught the pop fly threw it home. Runner who was on third touched home. Ball is late getting to home and is not tagged. Coaches and everyone else is yelling at her to go back to third. Runner (who ran home) runs back to third and is called safe at third.

I ask if this was the correct call because it’s the same scenario but roles reversed. We were the runners and we were called out. Umpire advised that bases must be ran in order and since she touched home plate she can not go back to 3rd. states runners must touch bases in order and once she touched home she was no longer allowed to go back to third base. I went home and read that section and agreed. I would just like clarification.

For reference I was reading in Rule 8 Section 6(a) and (f).

A runner may not return to touch a base missed or one left too soon on a caught fly ball if:
1) she has left the field of play
2) a following runner has scored

So, unless either of those things happened (which in your description they did not), she could have gone back to retouch.

 

[eddieq]

Which ruleset? USA Rule 8.6 regarding a runner returning to their base have nothing to do with a tag up. In USA rule 8.3 references touching bases in legal order. As noted by @Greatdaytobeawildcat she cannot go back and retouch if she has left the field of play or a trailing runner has scored. Since neither apply here, she would have to retouch home on the way past and retouch third. If she missed retouching home on the way back, she could be called out on appeal. USA rule 8.3.A.

The prohibition on returning after a trailing runner has scored is 8.3.G.

She also cannot go back and retouch once she has advanced to awarded bases 8.3.H and 8.3.I. 8.5.G Note specifies this
"Once a base runner advances to the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any base missed or left too soon."

Again, that didn't happen, so it's no relevant, but since these threads always go down the "what if" rabbit hole, I added the context.

 

[AAACreations]

Which ruleset? USA Rule 8.6 regarding a runner returning to their base have nothing to do with a tag up. In USA rule 8.3 references touching bases in legal order. As noted by @Greatdaytobeawildcat she cannot go back and retouch if she has left the field of play or a trailing runner has scored. Since neither apply here, she would have to retouch home on the way past and retouch third. If she missed retouching home on the way back, she could be called out on appeal. USA rule 8.3.A.

The prohibition on returning after a trailing runner has scored is 8.3.G.

She also cannot go back and retouch once she has advanced to awarded bases 8.3.H and 8.3.I. 8.5.G Note specifies this
"Once a base runner advances to the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any base missed or left too soon."

Again, that didn't happen, so it's no relevant, but since these threads always go down the "what if" rabbit hole, I added the context.

Thank you for the replies, and the explanation makes sense. Where can I find information on what constitutes leaving the field of play? Thank you for the clarification.

 

[AAACreations]

Which ruleset? USA Rule 8.6 regarding a runner returning to their base have nothing to do with a tag up. In USA rule 8.3 references touching bases in legal order. As noted by @Greatdaytobeawildcat she cannot go back and retouch if she has left the field of play or a trailing runner has scored. Since neither apply here, she would have to retouch home on the way past and retouch third. If she missed retouching home on the way back, she could be called out on appeal. USA rule 8.3.A.

The prohibition on returning after a trailing runner has scored is 8.3.G.

She also cannot go back and retouch once she has advanced to awarded bases 8.3.H and 8.3.I. 8.5.G Note specifies this
"Once a base runner advances to the next awarded base, the runner may no longer return to touch any base missed or left too soon."

Again, that didn't happen, so it's no relevant, but since these threads always go down the "what if" rabbit hole, I added the context.

Can you provide a link to the rules you are referring to.... 8.3.G in my book talks about Base running / courtesy runner / pitcher catcher identification. For clarification im using the USSSA Fast Pitch Rules and By Laws 16th ed, printed 1-2022.

 

[eddieq]

Can you provide a link to the rules you are referring to.... 8.3.G in my book talks about Base running / courtesy runner / pitcher catcher identification. For clarification im using the USSSA Fast Pitch Rules and By Laws 16th ed, printed 1-2022.

You'll note that I said I was reading the USA rulebook (which is available here)

Unfortunately, the various alphabet soup orgs have their own numbering, own rules nuances, etc. Utrip (USSSA) Fastpitch playing rules are available here. To your original point USSSA rule 8.6 regarding touching bases in legal order. 8.6.I is relevant to the original question (and corresponds to USA 8.3.G). 8.3.J and 8.3.K refers to awarded bases.

But, as with my read of the USA rules, I see nothing that would make it illegal for the runner to retouch home and return to third to correct the "left too early" mistake providing that no trailing runner had scored and the runner had not left the field of play (i.e. went into the dugout).

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

Thank you for the replies, and the explanation makes sense. Where can I find information on what constitutes leaving the field of play? Thank you for the clarification.

Traditionally leaving the field of play is a "dead ball area." That's usually a dug out. Some fields have odd features. I coached a game that had the bleachers on the field. Every throw that got by the first base person ended up in the spectators.

 

[TXJames44]

We had a similar one today. Here was the scenario:

USSSA ruleset.

Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out. Laser line drive to CF. Runner on 3rd holds and tags, runner on 1st does not. Centerfielder makes the tough catch (2nd out), and immediately fires it to 1st for the easy 3rd out. During all of this, the runner on 3rd tags and advances home barely beating the throw to 1st.

Does the run count?

Both umps agreed on call, and UIC backed them up.

 

[mmeece]

We had a similar one today. Here was the scenario:

USSSA ruleset.

Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out. Laser line drive to CF. Runner on 3rd holds and tags, runner on 1st does not. Centerfielder makes the tough catch (2nd out), and immediately fires it to 1st for the easy 3rd out. During all of this, the runner on 3rd tags and advances home barely beating the throw to 1st.

Does the run count?

Both umps agreed on call, and UIC backed them up.

Run scores. Timing play

 

[The Man In Blue]

Both umps agreed on call, and UIC backed them up.

May be a good clue that they were right?